retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

Greetings,

After having read many pros and cons, I would really appreciate the hands-on opinions of fellow hogs; people who have used these lenses to photo BIF and other fast action, and who have specifically used them with teleconverters. Currently I am shooting with a Nikkor 300mm f/2.8 on a D810, primarily using a TC-20E III and a TC-17E II. My BIF results with the TC-17E II is excellent and is pretty good with the TC-20E III. Shooting stationary subjects with the 300mm + TC 20 combination produces very, very good results – I am happy with those – but I shoot mostly BIF. Now I am seeking improvement at the 600mm range and farther, therefore considering the new lens.

I am working on improving my technique to correct the slight softness with the 300mm + TC 20E combination BUT the cause MAY be more the result of using a teleconverter in which case I need to stay with a 600mm plus a new TC 14E to get max range and sharpness. Of course my human nature will force me to put the TC 17 and TC20 on the 600mm lens so I am wondering how those results will be – can I really get a sharp BIF photo at 1200 mm, f/8? Anybody happy with their results using this combo?

The D810 is supposed to autofocus down to f/8 BUT I do notice the autofocus already slowing down with the TC20 on the 300mm f/2.8 bringing it to only f/5.6. Accordingly, I wonder how even a half- stop increase will affect autofocus. This is important when I think about limiting myself to not using the TC 20E at all and not going out that far. This would bring the choices to the Nikkor 500mm with a TC17 or the Nikkor 600mm with a TC14 for 850mm and 840mm respectively with only ½ stop difference in favor of the 600mm. (I do not want to spend $12000 on the new 400mm f/2.8 lens, but would that be a smarter choice for 800mm using the TC20 at an f/5.6, same as the 600mm plus TC14?)

Thanks in advance.

birdpix Loc: South East Pennsylvania

We should all have that problem!

I can't be of help with those specific lens/TC combinations. I am a Canon shooter using a 7d. My gut feeling is that you would be better off with the 600mm and the 1.4 simply from the standpoint of getting as close as possible with the base lens and modifying it the least.

I don't know of anyone on UHH who is using those combinations, either. My suggestion would be to rent those lenses/TCs and test them yourself.

Have you considered the Sigma 300-800 f/5.6?

You might PM MTShooter and ask him as he is a Nikon Dealer.

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

Thanks for your response Birdpix, I appreciate the input. It is a tough problem but having saved my pennies, I need to relieve my GAS. :)

I am also leaning toward your gut feeling on the 600mm. You are also right about the rent/ test idea.

The Sigma zoom is another good idea which I did briefly entertain but after some thought decided to stay with the prime Nikkors. I will check in with MTShooter as suggested.

Thanks again.

snowbear

https://www.flickr.com/photos/coastalconn

One of the best amateur bird photographers I've seen; he's using a Tamron 150-600mm f/2.5-6.3.

Caysnowman Loc: MN & SC

Thanks for the link. Amazing work. I'd like to see a film of how he does what he does with his D7100 / Tamron 150-600 combination.

Bill

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

I have both the Nikon 300/2.8 and the 400/2.8 and both the 1.4 and the 2.0 TCs. I have not used them for BIF, but I plan to get into that for personal fun. I am a sports shooter. For most outdoor games, I use the 400 with the 1.4 TC about 50-75% of the time. If I don't need the reach I use the 300, but usually don't use a TC on this lens as I have the 400. I purchased the 2.0 TC specifically to reach outfielders in baseball simply because it was less expensive than purchasing a longer lens. I currently shoot with a D4s, but have shot with every pro version, and others, back to the F5, except for the orig D series. In my opinion, using the 2.0 TC does contribute to a noticeable, but not unusable, loss of sharpness. The 1.4 is pretty close IMHO. The reason I answered this is because I have a Sigma 150-600 sport on order. I will be using that for paid work as well as my own BIF. Obviously I can't say much about it as I have only seen photos of it. I've even talked to Sigma and they can't (or won't) tell me much. I hope to have one end of month or soon after. I plan to use this for both my paid and unpaid work. I have tried out the Tamron 150-600 on my D4 and decided to wait for the Sigma. If it's near as good as advertised, it might just fit the bill for what you want. Hope my long rant has helped!

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

I use the Canon 300 2.8 with 2X on crop frame. - and, that is what I recommend for you if you stay with the 300mm - instead of DX - though I'd rather be using the Sony A77II. BIF is all about lens mobility, management, and focus speed/accuracy - something very difficult to obtain with 500/600 f4's or bigger ! The use of a zoom is also highly beneficial with initial focus aquisition - preferably a non extending one - the Sigma 120-300 sport comes to mind or maybe, the new Sigma 150-600 sport. Ultimately, the most successful BIF's will come from hand holding or from a "bodypod".

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

Thanks for this -- he is a great photographer and his work does inspire me to do better (I have a long way to go)

Since the Tamron 150-600 is a new lens, I would like to know what he used for most of his work. In any case, I think you are suggesting a long zoom. I had a Nikkor 200 to 400 for a while and was not happy at the long end, which is where I used it most of time. (Not meant to insult anyone -- the 200 to 400 IS a great lens, just not for me.) I understand that the Tamron is a bit weak at the long end as well (Typical of such zooms I guess.)

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

Thanks CJC2. I am curious what your opinion of the Sigma zoom will be. I should wait to see the reviews on that one.

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

Thanks imagemeister. Went to your website -- BEAUTIFUL photos!! You really get great results with the 300 + 2x! Like I said elsewhere, I have a long way to go.

Do you also use a medium format camera bird shots?

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Thanks, .......I do have a Russian 600mm f6.3 mirror lens that I use with the Pentax 645 (film) ( equivilent 360mm) with 400 speed Fujichrome. - Hope to use it more this coming season.

snowbear

He has learned to get close to his subjects, and is very patient. he says fieldwork is everything.

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

I have learned this as well -- and it takes discipline, as you know. I find that the quality of my photos are inversely proportional to the distance from the subject. Obviously the closer you are, the less focal length you need. This is part of the reason for my seemingly stupid indecision; ie: perhaps a 500mm is a better choice over a 600mm lens; it will force me to narrow the distance to my subject. (It will also save $$ and weight.) Distance to subject is probably a more important consideration in improving image quality than is a longer focal length prime lens.

(Tilting toward the 500. :))

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

It is a shame Nikon does not make a 400 ( OTHER than f2.8) !
Being on Canon, I would be using the 400 f4 DO with 1.4X ...... to save size and weight over the 300 2.8 with 2X - IF- I had the money to spend.....

retlaw Loc: Northern New Jersey

You're right although I do use the 300 2.8 with the 1.7x for 510 mm with really good results.