PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas

cwp3420: I can tell from your posts that you appear to have a high intelligence level, and you write well.

Nagy: This kind of strategy is called softening up the mark. Flatter him first, then strike.

cwp3420: Other than that, you seem to me to be a bitter old man (see your photo) who hates the world in general and believers exceptionally.

Nagy: How wonderful; Doctor Professor Penny MD teaches doctors and is very smart, and you are apparently a psychiatrist who is somehow capable of deciphering everything about me based on my exchanges on UHH.

cwp3420: You seem to have these grandiose ideas that if you say it, everyone else will immediately say you are the greatest.

Nagy: You do not realize the irony of your statement, which applies far more to my opponents on this thread than it does to me. I have never stated a serious position based on my authority. I use facts and reason. I have documented from time to time, when questioned. The opposition, however, rejects both fact and reason. They think that if they, or their precious Bible said it, everyone must realize the brilliance of the statement and their greatness.

cwp3420: However, when I read what you write I realize that you enjoy arguing with people and belittling them as much as possible. For instance, like you're doing with Penny. My wife is a nurse and teaches doctors medical procedures they are now doing in her unit in the hospital where she works. You can belittle Penny about the same thing, but in you doing so I'm sure it makes you feel like a big man to put her down.

Nagy: Putting Penny down? No, I am enthralled by the potential indicated by her being very smart and highly educated. I crave to see the fruits of those qualities, but she refuses to showcase her prodigious talents on UHH, where she is satisfied with cheerleading for vapid, illogical religious right comments, and throwing a few darts at me.

cwp3420: It would not surprise me one bit if you, in your professional life, have had multiple sexual harassment complaints made against you by women.

Nagy: There were two such charges, both of them false. The first was a student who apparently had a crush on me. She said that I had made blatant sexual overtures to her for months during class. The story fell apart because there were students to her left, right, in front, and behind her, and not one had ever heard me saying anything inappropriate to her.

As a matter of fact, if I had been so inclined, I need not have sexually harassed any student, because droves of them made blatant propositions to me. I never crossed that line.

The second sexual harassment charge against me was by a colleague who backed into me in a large meeting hall. I laughed, thinking two clumsy fools cannot pay attention enough to avoid slamming into each other. She formally claimed that I grabbed her hips and humped on her. With close to 100 people walking all over the place at the time, there should have been some witnesses to that act, but were not. On that basis the charge fell apart.

In fact, Mr. cwp3420, I have been extremely reserved about touching a woman or making sexual suggestions. I used to read their body language, facial expressions, and listen to what they were saying, and even then act so slowly most of them wondered when I would close in. It was never in a public place, either. Any personal contact with a colleague began with a dinner date, not public groping, or verbal presumptuousness. While married, I do not even do that.

Unfortunately, I am far more dull than the fictitious Peter Nagy you are libelously trying to create. You have just showed how arbitrary is your character assessment of me, concocting all sorts of detail about me that nothing I write suggests. I have not made any suggestive comments to Penny, and would not want physical intimacy with such a right wing shill. If I found her personality as attractive as her avatar, I would not act on that unless I sensed mutual interest from her.

cwp3420: You have probably gone through life as a pompous, self-righteous bully and have gotten your way a lot of the time. You can spew all of the hatred you want to, as is your right on UHH.

Nagy: I have to admit that I do hate some of you, but Doktor Professor Penny MD is not one of them. She is too harmless to cause any damage, either to me, or to any cause. As to bullying people, most of the time when they pour forth nonsense, I say nothing. On UHH's General ChtiChat, on the other hand, debate is apparently a major purpose. Take a look at what some of you are writing about me. Is that hatred, or do you call it justified holy anger?

cwp3420: Please understand though that many of us that read what you write see you as what you really are. A broken down old man, who time has passed by, and now only interacts with people on the computer because he has driven his family and friends away with his extreme hatred toward others. It must suck to be you. Poor, poor little PNagy. A legend in his own mind.

Nagy: You have built an entire biography of me, then denounced the fictitious character you created. That stupid approach is called the strawman tactic. You have falsely conjectured that I am a sexual abuser, broken down, and without friends or family. Time passed me by? I am having the time of my life. I take whatever jobs I want, and reject what I don't. I meet with former students and colleagues. While I view people with a cynical perceptiveness, I do not stew in hatred. Too bad you cannot write any better, cwp3420, because you do have an imagination that could be useful in writing fiction.

As to being a legend, I never said any such thing. I am just one of seven billion. I may do some things better than most, but other things not as well. I am sure I could not teach doctors what Doktor Professor Penny MD does. Nor could I write spectacularly ad hominem nonsense as vapidly as you do. You are a legend in no one's mind, especially those who cringe when reading off-the-shelf banal cliches.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Yes, I believe God is almighty, omnipresent, and all-powerful and I believe He created everything. Yes, I believe Jesus existed, taught how to have eternal life in atonement (at one with) God after physical death, and was crucified by the Romans at the request of the Jewish leaders for doing so. Jesus was shaking up their authoritative leadership positions and he had to be done away with. It was him or them and they knew it. They wanted to stamp out this little rebellion, mock his teachings, and get rid of him. I believe God allowed the whole thing to happen through a sequence of man-made events so that Jesus was assured to be crucified. God knew the Jewish leaders would request his execution because He knows what the quest for power and money does to humans. Jesus, with powerful communication with the spiritual entity known as God, also knew what was coming before it did and he knew what he was going to do after physical death.

No, I am definitely not Catholic and I have several historical and personal reasons why I would never be affiliated with such a monstrous profit-minded corporation. Murder of millions, the Inquisitions, banking fraud, and religious fraud being a few. When an organization claims the Pope is the Vicar of Christ (the replacement representative of Christ on Earth) then that's where I stand very clear of such a con artist corporation. Do good things come out of Catholicism? Yes. Are Catholic people all bad or evil? Absolutely not. Some yes, most no.

From that point on I have big problems with mainstream Christianity, which is merely a cluster of denominations which are direct offshoots of the Catholic faith but twisted into various deviations of each other - and I have many problems with the collection of fiction called the Bible. I more closely relate to non-denominational Christian faiths, spiritualists who search for truths throughout the world, and I research other faiths to find truths in them that align with what I believe being a God-fearing individual should entail. Thus I call myself a Gnostic Christian with no denominational affiliation. Yes, there were Gnostic religions in history who were not purely searchers of truth, but I don't want to be related in any way to them. I simply use the word Gnostic to describe my constant search for God's truths.

I don't bother people who choose to be led through methodology, denominational doctrine, misinterpretation, and fictional writings, with a leash around their neck. Their beliefs are their own and they have a right to them, just like James has a right to his lack thereof. I search for God's truths wherever they might be. They may be threaded and interwoven into a religion of India, into teachings of Ghandi, into the song words of a rock music song like "What If God Was One of Us", into things Sylvia Brown said (many don't know she had an Alternative Christan church too), into the Matrix movies, or anywhere else God wishes to speak through mankind. I've been told truths by people standing in line in a grocery, people sitting drunk at a bar, a homeless guy at a tent where they were giving out winter coats, by people all over of every social status. Not because they were intent on telling me but because God spoke through them in passing conversation. I listen and watch for God to communicate through whatever means.

Now, hear we go... I've said on here many times during these long drawn out philosophical and theological heated debates that theological archaeologists, who are not atheist, and belong to the most prestigious religious and non-religious university organizations in the world, know for FACT that the books of the Bible were written 80 to 450 years AFTER the crucifixion and the founding of the 1st Century church. The ones I listen most closely to are always referenced by Time Magazine when they do Easter time stories about Jesus every year. I have many unbiased college level courses on DVD from some of these theology professors who are doctors of theology. This is where science that atheists claim knows more than religious fanatics meets religion which Christians claim knows more than science.

There were several churches in the first century and the Roman Universal Christian Church in Rome was the one and only that was always seeking power, money, and political advantage while the others consisted of 3 elders who taught and led small congregations, the 3 were supported by those small congregations, and traveling "evangelist" preachers were brought in for teaching sermons. These visitors were supported while they were doing so and sent to their next location with food, other supplies, and as much money as the congregation could muster. They weren't paid but today it's called a "love offering". Actually Paul became one of those traveling evangelists eventually. He was rejected by some of the churches for creating his own version of Christianity but he still had plenty of places to do his preaching.

But the Roman church couldn't live with being small and personal. It had to create an organization that dominated by saying it was founded on Peter "The Rock" and all other Christian churches were not valid. The churches fought Rome all the time about this. There are documents from that era to prove it. To make a long story short, the Roman church accomplished it's goal, stomped out all other Christianities by force, by killing, and by burning all their documents and books. It made itself into what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church and the dominant force in Mainstream Christianity - which itself is an elaborate hoax.

The Bible books were simply written by fiction novelists who used the names of the real Disciples of Jesus as pen names to try to have a competitive edge over other writers of their eras. Not ONE book of the Bible was written by anybody who was there, who knew Jesus, who knew any of the Disciples, was a disciple of a Disciple, or anything else. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were NOT written first hand by those Disciples. Paul himself, who is responsible for many writings of the New Testament wasn't even born when Jesus was crucified. Listen carefully here: The Bible is a collection of fictional books that were assembled by Catholic leaders into a "canon" so their Mainstream Christianity would have a authoritative book to teach and control followers internationally from. Every religion and business has to have a Master Plan for all branches to follow to keep their organization together.

God did not write the Bible or have a hand in it - at all. If you are told and believe that - you are believing pure b*llsh*t spread internationally for hundreds upon hundreds of years by the Catholic church. Just because the church pronounces it does not make something true. Fiction writers wrote all of it, some were paid to do so, some sold their fiction publicly, and there is very little factual information about Jesus and the first century church in the Bible. The books have been scrutinized to death and computer technology has made it possible to do cross-referencing of texts very quickly. Theologians know that some of the books were written after the writers read a currently extinct book they call "Q" because certain phrases in the various writings were directly plagiarized word for word. "Book Q" so far doesn't exist but the search continues. "Q" likely has some first person experiences of the life and ministry of Jesus contained in it but there's no way to know yet.

To put the frosting on this falsehood cake, it's know for FACT that emperors and kings throughout history have added mistranslations to the fiction, have subtracted some segments from the fiction, and added some writings of their own. Translators and transcribers also took liberties with their work and translated words incorrectly according their own tastes and even added little segments that they thought clarified the original writings - but added clarification to what THEY decided it meant. There are dozens of Bibles that don't read the same. English Bibles sometimes come from German translations of the original texts. The German translations may have come from Egyptian translations. The list goes on and on. King James, which some churches claim is the best most accurate Bible, has just as many or more errors as any other. It's know for fact that he ordered revisions to better fit it into his puritanical era.

You ask me, if one doesn't go to eternal atonement with God after physical death then where do they go. I wholeheartedly believe that Mainstream Christianity has turned the message of Jesus upside down with all this Catholic heaven and hell hoax yet it can't be proven with his real teachings because so far there is no 100% truthful expression of his teachings in any known writing from that era except some that may have leaked into the bible fiction from "Q".

I believe, because there is no hell with torture, fire, or lake of fire, as imagined by Dante, that one must recognize that their human spirit which is a spark of God inside us separated here (residing in a physical body in this physical world) from God (the spirit world from which we came originally) is the torture our spirit must endure until it is reunited with God. If we are to be surrounded with evil and tortured by evils constantly for participating in evil of the physical world in hell, where are we right now? We're in it already!

I postulate with confidence, and have seen others also say, that we are currently in the very place we don't want to be in and our mission should be to escape this place permanently to eternal life with God. If we don't achieve our mission and don't walk a narrow path in this life that is pleasing to God, then we are reincarnated back to this place again in another human body to live another life here. We hopefully will find the truth on our own in that life span and achieve the mission of pleasing God. If it takes 1 trip through the physical world or 150 trips, then that's human choice. It's also not a punishing God who burns his child in a lake of fire as revenge for the child not living one life correctly. His child may have not had the opportunity to know the truth, may have been dragged into evil participation that he or she couldn't find their way out of, etc. A Father of a child doesn't kill their child for making mistakes but gives that child chance after chance after chance to do it right and pleas the Father. Reincarnation perfectly aligns with our loving God giving us many opportunities for salvation from this place filled with evil until we finally get it right - through making our own correct choices.

So, I believe we are forced back here through involuntary reincarnation to the physical realm until we "get it right" and break the circular pattern of returning for another run. Every day believers battle with evil influences and try to keep our heads above the fray as we attempt to live without participating in evil and find the path of living that pleases God.

You also mentioned about Hitler and where he went if not hell. He's here again! We don't know who he is, or what year he was born, so we don't know how old he is. He may become the next world leader that your Bible says will be the anti-Christ. Where will Manson go when he dies? Here again. What does Manson say honestly about himself. "Look at me. I am what you created. I am what you made me." He's right. Evils of our society made him into what he is. Where is Jeffrey Dalmer? Probably with God because he made a commitment to God and evil left him before he was shanked in prison and died. Look at pictures of his face when he was arrested and pictures of his face two weeks before he died. The evil that had led him into what he did was completely gone.

In the Bible, if you choose to believe anything it says, Jesus said it is simple - you must live "as these little children" to please God. What is that way of living? Not doing bad to others, not being selfish, not participating in evil by making non-positive decisions that harm someone, loving (not romantically) everyone you come in contact with and not hating them, sharing, playing together, being selfless, etc.

In other words, love and respect God first, love and respect others second, love and respect yourself lastly. The 10 commandments all lead directly to that conclusion too. Make that your life's work every day, every moment, and live a life of moderation that never harms any other living entity (except in self defense). Assure every action and every word is helpful to other living entities. Then God is pleased with your performance in this miserable hellhole of an existence and allows you entrance into an eternal life of atonement. You have followed the love-based teachings in all major religions, you have done good for all living creations of God, you have experienced rewards for your positive actions and words during your lifetime, and when it's time to jump off this merry-go-round of reincarnating repeatedly, God welcomes you to join others who have done the same - including Jesus who was the first pioneer to ascend spiritually to the Father by living precisely this way.

Before you say that reincarnation is an evil lie, a falsehood of the devil, and blasphemy, read your Bible that you believe to be the truth. Jesus asked "Who do the people think I am?" and he was answered with the names of two who had been dead long before Jesus lived. So the people of that era knew about and believed in reincarnation. Jesus did NOT rebuke anybody for believing it and did not say reincarnation didn't exist. Look it up for yourself. Only Mainstream Christianity rails against the concept of reincarnation, even though it's in the Bible more than once, because it doesn't fit nicely into the theology they've created. Christianity purposely rejects reincarnation because eastern religions believe in it. You should also know that Jesus spent time earlier in life studying the eastern religions, and that has been proven as well, so he was well aware of what they taught and believed.

I'll close now because I know I lost you many paragraphs ago as your engrained classic religious programming stopped you from opening your eyes to alternative though. Then you became combative and fought against learning anything new that I might say and you are going to reply with tired cliches that you've held dear for years.

The desired end result is the same for both of us, but the methods by which we're trying to get there are very different. You believe what you're told is correct and I believe what I've discovered on my own is correct. You are segregated into a specific religious movement that rejects all others to sustain power and financial gain, and I'm integrated into truths that span numerous religions and causes no profit or control of anybody.

James may not have beliefs concerning God and eternal life now but according to my belief system, maybe in his next incarnation he will be more open to investigating such things. So let's let him have his stance without condemnation or aggressive amateur evangelism about hell fire damnation.

God is a kind and loving God who doesn't want his spirit to burn in a lake of fire. The spirit within James that he has decided to deny and ignore is a spark of God wanting to go home like all of us do but that may not happen when James is done with this physical life. So chill out if you're still reading this.

Sorry about the length but you asked and I answered. I think we're still on topic though, although we're now up to 58 pages. I just hope somebody doesn't use the "Quote Reply" button and repeat this whole thing in their reply without deleting most of it!

cwp3420

Ok. Thanks for the reply. And I didn't need to "chill out" after reading it, and I read every line. I am curious though why you say I became "combative" after reading this. I didn't even see you in my home, so I'm wondering why you would say that. Are you feeling a little combative and defensive, Marco?

"You are segregated into a specific religious movement that rejects all others to sustain power and financial gain, and I'm integrated into truths that span numerous religions and causes no profit or control of anybody."

How do you know this, Marco? Did I mention that I belonged to a certain religion or denomination? If I did, please enlighten me in what I said. Thanks, Marco. Have a good one.

James Shaw

You were not "too hard on James," as that would be impossible for you to do. So, don't flatter yourself. You believe the Bible is the word of God, a God who tells Moses to have his soldiers rape little girls after killing both parents and male siblings, and other female siblings that have slept with a man.

You have a sick and perverted mind to believe such. God did not write the Bible. Men wrote the Bible and claimed belief in a God, to justify their horrid acts, and you swallow the whole thing, written 2-3 thousand years ago. Fear not, "you could not be too hard on James."

You are a self-centered and conceited fool, who pretends to believe in Christianity.

cwp3420

:P

COI Jack Loc: Missouri

Air has weight, can be compressed and even liquefied. Time can be measured. Thoughts may be expressed.
Too bad you didn't get a picture of the soul, but who knew?

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

The word combative doesn't have to mean "in person." One can be "combative" verbally or in one's mind without verbalizing it. What I wrote above almost always causes a combative mindset in mainstream Christians. Verbal assault comes from some as though I'm an evil heretic with a red suit and horns who has the capacity to crack their protective shield they have built up around themselves because they can't make sense out of what preachers and the Bible tells them but the put up a shield of "faith" in the confusion they've been taught. Atheists then jump on too. You aren't really going to tell me that you didn't get stirred up at least a little because my view is so in contrast with, and almost in reverse of, normal mainstream Christian beliefs are you?

I'm not combative and defensive about it, I don't need to be. I know what I believe and it rings true in my spirit. God doesn't take me to task for stating these beliefs - and in fact blesses my life regularly in many ways. I would think if I'm stating untruths I would be in deep crap because I had stepped away from what God expects of me (you could say I fell off the narrow path) and would be more vulnerable to being eaten up by evil than I am. So I have peace and confidence that God knows where my head is and approves. I was just expecting the usual response from you and others.

Typically readers of my stated view will read for a while, realize that it's quite different that what they "know" already from their church backgrounds, refuse to read the rest, skim to pick up some highlight words without actually reading, then attempt to assassinate my statement and character. It many times also includes a demand for a list of the writings and renowned authors I derived my information from and to know what degrees I have in theology. A degree is supposed to make somebody more knowledgeable about God, I guess. My concluded personal theology that works for me is not from specific books but pieces of a big puzzle over a 40 year period of my life in a wide variety of situations which have formed into a visible picture as they came together.

I assume you're either in, or was in, a denomination for an extended period of time because you make mainstream Christian comments that are preached in protestant churches everywhere. I've heard them hundreds of times.

I appreciate your reading my reply completely without negative response. Maybe it offered you something new to ponder that you hadn't before. I don't run around knocking on doors and evangelizing with my view. I just live it and when somebody asks I tell them what I believe. Have a good one.

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

One doesn't usually think to take their dSLR with flash with them as they're sprinting through a yard and up the stairs to get into the bedroom to try to save a close relative but didn't make it. Sorry, I'll try to be more thoughtful next time...

It's been a long time since I talked to anybody who weighed a bottle of air. I'll have to try that. The point wasn't to scientifically pick apart the concept of air. The point was that the general population who are not scientists just breath air, walk through air, feel air, smell contaminants in air, and don't consider measuring, compressing, or liquifying it - but they just believe it's there.

Time isn't really measured either. The rotation of the earth and the positions of the stars are known to repeat so the time between rotational repetitions has been divided into periods that have been named and are reasonably accurate although our present system of measurement is not quite perfect and loses or gains a little during every repetition. Rotations of the Earth and the time increments here would mean nothing if you lived on Mars. You'd have to measure the rotation of Mars to create a new calendar and new time increments which would likely be extremely different than Earth. If you could just stay suspended weightlessly in space without being on any planet for a year, there would be no rotation of a planet you're touching, so what happens to what we call "time" then? You'd still age and decompose but time based on planet rotation wouldn't actually exist with nothing to measure from. You could look at your Earth watch and believe that time was passing at the same rate but is it really?

Yes, thoughts are expressed but where did they come from? Nerve endings storing words that somehow are fused together into a sentence or paragraph by the brain without any guidance? If thoughts are spoken and not heard, are they real? If they are not spoken and are kept in the brain that magically formed them, are they real? If they are spoken and are heard but no action is taken on them, are they really real as a tangible thing that is touchable or measurable? Even if they are written down they don't become a tangible touchable "thing" until the thought is acted upon and something physical happens because of the thought.

You can't grab a handful of air, you can't tell time unless the planet we're on keeps rotating at a specific speed, and you can't put your hands on a thought in your mind or coming out of your mouth, but you believe they are real anyway.

I see creativity in the constant diversification of flower colors, breeds, and locations without man's influence as being just as real as what you believe is real. I see the genesis and re-genesis of the Earth's surface happening, despite man's negative influence, as real. I see my arm get cut and slowly heal until the cut is gone which is a form of re-genesis that is real. I see birds who weigh too much for their wingspan fly anyway although science says it shouldn't be possible. There are a lot of things happening on earth that were happening before man was here and will continue to happen long after man wipes himself off the planet. Man's destruction of the planet will be overgrown, decay, and vanish while the earth itself continues. Those natural actions of earth have a motivating force and creativity behind them and I believe that unseen but constant force is God.

COI Jack Loc: Missouri

You are welcome to believe whatever you wish. Animals think, including man. Events happen and man explains them eventually, whether correctly or incorrectly. You choose to explain some things through the supernatural. I don't.
That doesn't mean we still can't be friends. You should never let politics or religion get in the way of friendship, but sometimes, it ain't easy!

silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.

I wonder if there were two of these on Noahs ark? http://www.aol.com/article/2014/09/04/argentine-dinosaur-may-shed-light-on-huge-beasts/20957160/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl33%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D524969

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Good point! Let's do that then. If one has to fight about religion, it isn't working anyway!

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Something doesn't seem right, is there really 58 pages on this subject post????

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

Yep.. this is page 58 according to the counter in the bottom right corner.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

I guess including the "quote reply" doesn't help keeping the pages to a minimum lol

nakkh Loc: San Mateo, Ca

- http://i.imgur.com/bwgBfYD.jpg