CatMarley wrote:
Am I suggesting anything at all by asking a question? I don't think we can do a blessed thing about this. And I am absolutely certain we won't. The question is, What could have been done leading up to this point that might have averted this incident? Of course we could take the tact that who cares? we didn't do anything and that's it!
On the other hand one considers these things in hopes of learning something that can be applied to future situations. This administration had had Libya. Egypt, now Ukraine, which all could have been handled intelligently with a different outcome. But there is not much evidence of learning going on. So, just asking questions.
Am I suggesting anything at all by asking a questi... (
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fair question.
what we could have done, and didn't, was believe Michael Gorbachev when he stated he wanted to invoke fundamental change in the then Soviet Union. Margaret Thatcher, interestingly enough, counseled him against reuniting Germany - she believed it would eclipse Great Britain as leader of western europe.
in the United States, our political establishment, at the time, sought to capitalise on this for political ends. hence the "we won the war" mantra. we ignored the fact of the third greatest revolution taking place bloodlessly. we ignored the opportunity to build a Marshall Plan for Russia and the old Warsaw Bloc nations and instead sought to marginalise Russia and expand NATO into post Soviet countries. even though NATO was explicitly formed to defend what was no longer western europe against the soviet union, which no longer existed. it is interesting to note that every missile in every european country is still pointed at Russia.
the effect on Russian society and their political establishment was profound - and negative. Vladimir Putin is not unreasonable when he demands respect from the West. he is not unreasonable when he secures Russia's strategic interests in taking Sebastopol (the only warm water port for Russia's black sea fleet) from Ukraine.
nor is he unreasonable to ask for a buffer between his country and the rest of western europe with all its missiles pointed at his country. he's thin skinned and he does take this personally.
another way of putting this would be our going to war over soviet missiles in, oh let's say, Cuba.
it should be noted when Ukraine was separated from the Soviet Union, it was done so under not very salubrious circumstances.
it was done by fiat, by Nikita Kruschev after a night of drinking (it is said he was dead drunk), to prove he could do anything. Poof! no more Ukraine as part of Soviet Union(hic).
so, we could have supported Gorbachev, we could have supported Yeltsin and we could have gained the respect and trust of the Russian people. we could have treated Russia as partners, but chose to treat them as an un-nation, not worthy of being considered.
on our part, we had no thinkers in government, or universities, at that time, who thought of possibilities. we were defined by the atom bomb, cold war, assured mass destruction. beyond that, there was not much left over.
okay, and on to the arabian peninsula. this problem begins in August 1919 at the Paris Peace Talks ending, let's say, the first world war. Georges Clemenceau, David Lloyd George and Woodrow Wilson, respectively leaders of France, Great Britain and the United States, look at a map of the peninsula, and let me oversimplify here, grab a pencil and say, let's make this Iran, Iraq, Egypt (that was fairly easy - it had pyramids, everyone knew what those were), Libya, and everything else.
simply in the case of Iraq: anyone who put Mosul, Baghdad and Kirkuk in the same country should have been taken away by the men in white. the borders of all the countries were drawn with an imperial design. France got some to "administer" and Great Britain got their share. and now we are seeing the results.
the arabian peninsula, for better of worse, will become what it will be. no one knows what that is, including the protagonists. anyone who thinks they know, has an adgenda they are not telling you. history is always messy, cruel and bloody. there seems to be no helping that.
we, in the United States, in our geographic isolation are fortunate in that way. we had only one civil war, though we still have not resolved that.