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Russian shoot down of Malasia jet?
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Jul 18, 2014 13:42:34   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
dljen wrote:
Nobody *knows* for sure what happened, word is coming in every minute but right away you jump into blaming the president. I realize your children have chosen to be in the military but don't you think that their leaders would have a huge impact on how big the military is? Even the neocon, McCain wasn't ready to jump to conclusions. You were.

I heard that US airlines were forbidden by the FAA to fly over that space. If you're going to make a thread, why not supply facts? That would be better appreciated w/o the editorials.
Nobody *knows* for sure what happened, word is com... (show quote)


Some nutty people dont want facts or the truth, they just want to make nasty comments about Mr Obama.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:42:40   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
CatMarley wrote:
Our President is a man demonstrably unqualified for his position, and ideologically opposed to most of the political/economic traditions of our country


Political and economic traditions? Are you referring to the "Good O'l Boys" that should have retired years ago and the economic tradition of mercenary profiteering at the expense of the citizens. If so we are in complete agreement.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:46:56   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
venturer9 wrote:
Well,,, everyone does not call names on this site.... but almost all get a bit ticked off when someone attempts to show their superior intelligence by correcting a simple misspelling of a word... Especially when that misspelling had no bearing on the understanding of the comment being made...

Mike


Mike, I am always open to a correction and grateful for it. I am always happy to learn something, and I learned how to spell "Malaysia". Mama would be proud of me. I also don't mind at all the sometimes lame attempts at wit and the name calling. Peoples' posts stand for themselves, and if they think name calling earns them any respect, well bless their hearts, they are welcome to think so. I am a big girl and I have been playing with the boys for a long time.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:46:59   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
idaholover wrote:
My my, how quiet the libs have been! You could almost hear a pin drop.
"

One of these days I'll learn to keep my mouth shut. All that intelligent discourse down the drain.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:49:14   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
RixPix wrote:
Political and economic traditions? Are you referring to the "Good O'l Boys" that should have retired years ago and the economic tradition of mercenary profiteering at the expense of the citizens. If so we are in complete agreement.

As an American citizen, how in the hell do you keep from slashing your own throat? Good God man get a grip on it!

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Jul 18, 2014 13:51:32   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
RixPix wrote:
Political and economic traditions? Are you referring to the "Good O'l Boys" that should have retired years ago and the economic tradition of mercenary profiteering at the expense of the citizens. If so we are in complete agreement.


No I was thinking more of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. I see you are of the Karl Marx school.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:53:26   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
RixPix wrote:
Political and economic traditions? Are you referring to the "Good O'l Boys" that should have retired years ago and the economic tradition of mercenary profiteering at the expense of the citizens. If so we are in complete agreement.


By the way, how is the "blood diamond" business these days?

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Jul 18, 2014 13:54:43   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
idaholover wrote:
As an American citizen, how in the hell do you keep from slashing your own throat? Good God man get a grip on it!


Hey Idaho, you don't have to go all ad hominem on him. He's just not too quick on the uptake. Give him time, maybe he'll come up with something a bit more salient.

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Jul 18, 2014 13:57:25   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
RixPix wrote:
Political and economic traditions? Are you referring to the "Good O'l Boys" that should have retired years ago and the economic tradition of mercenary profiteering at the expense of the citizens. If so we are in complete agreement.


Did you ever read "Das Kapital" ? Most boring read ever! Can't understand how he ever got such a following. They must have brought out a comic book version!

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Jul 18, 2014 14:03:47   #
wj cody Loc: springfield illinois
 
CatMarley wrote:
Am I suggesting anything at all by asking a question? I don't think we can do a blessed thing about this. And I am absolutely certain we won't. The question is, What could have been done leading up to this point that might have averted this incident? Of course we could take the tact that who cares? we didn't do anything and that's it!

On the other hand one considers these things in hopes of learning something that can be applied to future situations. This administration had had Libya. Egypt, now Ukraine, which all could have been handled intelligently with a different outcome. But there is not much evidence of learning going on. So, just asking questions.
Am I suggesting anything at all by asking a questi... (show quote)


fair question.

what we could have done, and didn't, was believe Michael Gorbachev when he stated he wanted to invoke fundamental change in the then Soviet Union. Margaret Thatcher, interestingly enough, counseled him against reuniting Germany - she believed it would eclipse Great Britain as leader of western europe.

in the United States, our political establishment, at the time, sought to capitalise on this for political ends. hence the "we won the war" mantra. we ignored the fact of the third greatest revolution taking place bloodlessly. we ignored the opportunity to build a Marshall Plan for Russia and the old Warsaw Bloc nations and instead sought to marginalise Russia and expand NATO into post Soviet countries. even though NATO was explicitly formed to defend what was no longer western europe against the soviet union, which no longer existed. it is interesting to note that every missile in every european country is still pointed at Russia.

the effect on Russian society and their political establishment was profound - and negative. Vladimir Putin is not unreasonable when he demands respect from the West. he is not unreasonable when he secures Russia's strategic interests in taking Sebastopol (the only warm water port for Russia's black sea fleet) from Ukraine.

nor is he unreasonable to ask for a buffer between his country and the rest of western europe with all its missiles pointed at his country. he's thin skinned and he does take this personally.

another way of putting this would be our going to war over soviet missiles in, oh let's say, Cuba.

it should be noted when Ukraine was separated from the Soviet Union, it was done so under not very salubrious circumstances.

it was done by fiat, by Nikita Kruschev after a night of drinking (it is said he was dead drunk), to prove he could do anything. Poof! no more Ukraine as part of Soviet Union(hic).

so, we could have supported Gorbachev, we could have supported Yeltsin and we could have gained the respect and trust of the Russian people. we could have treated Russia as partners, but chose to treat them as an un-nation, not worthy of being considered.

on our part, we had no thinkers in government, or universities, at that time, who thought of possibilities. we were defined by the atom bomb, cold war, assured mass destruction. beyond that, there was not much left over.

okay, and on to the arabian peninsula. this problem begins in August 1919 at the Paris Peace Talks ending, let's say, the first world war. Georges Clemenceau, David Lloyd George and Woodrow Wilson, respectively leaders of France, Great Britain and the United States, look at a map of the peninsula, and let me oversimplify here, grab a pencil and say, let's make this Iran, Iraq, Egypt (that was fairly easy - it had pyramids, everyone knew what those were), Libya, and everything else.

simply in the case of Iraq: anyone who put Mosul, Baghdad and Kirkuk in the same country should have been taken away by the men in white. the borders of all the countries were drawn with an imperial design. France got some to "administer" and Great Britain got their share. and now we are seeing the results.

the arabian peninsula, for better of worse, will become what it will be. no one knows what that is, including the protagonists. anyone who thinks they know, has an adgenda they are not telling you. history is always messy, cruel and bloody. there seems to be no helping that.

we, in the United States, in our geographic isolation are fortunate in that way. we had only one civil war, though we still have not resolved that.

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Jul 18, 2014 14:07:38   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
idaholover wrote:
As an American citizen, how in the hell do you keep from slashing your own throat? Good God man get a grip on it!


You're insane. Exactly how many voices are there in your head?

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Jul 18, 2014 14:09:34   #
venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.
 
toma1940 wrote:
Career military, intelligence community.



Well, that ought to make her feel better,,,,looking back at the success the intelligence community have been having in the last few years..

Mike

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Jul 18, 2014 14:24:00   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
RixPix wrote:
You're insane. Exactly how many voices are there in your head?


Reason for one!

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Jul 18, 2014 14:32:37   #
toma1940 Loc: Silicon Valley, CA
 
In all due respect, I don't think so. My original query was to better understand your comments.
CatMarley wrote:
Then we have a lot in common.

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Jul 18, 2014 14:33:29   #
RixPix Loc: Miami, Florida
 
idaholover wrote:
Reason for one!


You must not listen to that one as none of your comments contain any sense of reason or rationality for that matter. You're obviously haunted by some trauma that has caused this ugly, angry, defected personality that you show to those of us on this board. Did you serve in Vietnam? You have all the signs of PTSD.

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