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I Didn't Say No
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Jan 15, 2012 09:49:52   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Good point, but using the higher sync speed as I suggested and f8-11 it won't show. The strobes should overpower the ambient.

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Jan 15, 2012 09:50:28   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
DavidT wrote:
I see lots of good advice, and I am not one to argue with portraiture experts. But, you mentioned something about shooting in the hallway. Ugh! I'm envisioning a corridor of lockers. For that situation, I might consider using the long telephoto zoom with large aperture to get the lockers out of focus. You would need a wireless trigger device though - maybe even on a more focused spot flash.

Post Edit: I reread your long email again and saw that you have a black background, so perhaps my suggestion above is not relevant. Sorry.
I see lots of good advice, and I am not one to arg... (show quote)


Thank you taking the time to respond to my message. I'm fortunate that this school does not have anything like lockers. The hallway is quite wide so I think it will work out with just the black backdrop.

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Jan 15, 2012 09:55:25   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
And the ceiling height?

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Jan 15, 2012 09:55:53   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
ephraim Imperio wrote:
maxamillion wrote:
GoofyNewfie wrote:
A big umbrella will hide a lot of problems.
The umbrella and a big reflector, used up close- just out of camera frame, will probably be enough to do the job. You'd just be using the 430ex as a trigger.
I like to use the umbrella as a shoot through, rather than reflected- you can get it in closer, which makes the light more diffuse.


Again thank you. I have marked the strobist site and will do some reading this afternoon. I'm not sure about the umbrella because I don't really want to invest anything into a job that is non-paying but I will see what the camera store has. I have my measuring tape all ready so I can record things when I do my practice shoot this afternoon. I plan on taping my spot, where the girls are to stand and where dad needs to put his feet so it doesn't look like the girls have three legs (that is what they look like from last year--girls with their feet apart and dads foot in between--not a good look!)
quote=GoofyNewfie A big umbrella will hide a lot ... (show quote)


One big problem with your scenario is the ambient fluorescent lighting which will cause green color cast on the peoples faces. You could either get at 18% grey card exposure reading or use gels. PLease read this on the subject of "Gelling for fluorescent"
at the Strobist website.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/04/lighting-102-61-gelling-for-fluorescent.html
quote=maxamillion quote=GoofyNewfie A big umbrel... (show quote)


Thank for taking the time to respond to my rather lengthy message. Those pesky fluorescent lights are exactly what is causing my concern. I do have a grey card so will make use of it. The strobist site you gave has been recommended to me and I am reading my way through it.

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Jan 15, 2012 09:57:23   #
normsImages Loc: Alabama for now
 
on your lens, if you use your 18-55 because of speed us it at 55. If the 75-300 is fast enough at say around 135mm use it, that converts to avout to about 84 mm full size. 80 to 100mm is ideal for portraits. If you go too wide you will get destrotion. another thing is try to keep the couple a few feet form the back drop to reduce shadows.

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Jan 15, 2012 10:04:18   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
Cappy wrote:
Hopefully you will have an assistant to place dad & daughter and make sure dress looks good, his tie is straight, no 3 legged people, etc. The assistant should have a short checklist and pad to get the names and put down the corresponding photo number. This way you can concentrate on taking the photos and putting the subjects at ease.

Remember to take your time.


Thank you for the practical suggestions you have given me. One of the mothers will be on hand to help place the dads and daughters and to take names. I also plan to have small tape marks for the placement of dads feet and for where the girls will stand. That should make it even easier to place them in the correct positions. Last years look with the daughter having three feet was not a good look.

Your best advice is one that I have the hardest time with no matter what I am shooting--taking my time. For some reason I get the feeling that I am imposing so must hurry. So thank you for putting it in black and white for me. I will be thinking "Cappy said to take my time!"

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Jan 15, 2012 10:07:05   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Good point, but using the higher sync speed as I suggested and f8-11 it won't show. The strobes should overpower the ambient.


GoofyNewfie--just wanted to let you know I did a sorta, kinda, test shoot using the soft box. I think that is going to work out just fine. Of course the conditions weren't exactly the same but I think I am on the right track. Thank you again for all your great advice.

I haven't heard back about the ceiling height yet!

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Jan 15, 2012 11:06:45   #
mgemstone Loc: Chicago/Cocoa beach/La/NY
 
my suggestion - simply used the monolight and thats all. You don't need to complicate things. Use your 18-5x lense and set your lighting to F8 to f11. Lighting dirctly in front of the subjects. Subjects at least 4 feet fron the background (prefer 6) and place your light about 6 to 8 feet from the subject. Light should wrap arond subject to eliminate body shadow. You could use a tripod (remember to turn off iS if you do).

Most important, whatever method you use, try it out first at the actual location. This eliminated or at least reduces problems and increases ones confidence.

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Jan 15, 2012 11:17:44   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
mgemstone wrote:
my suggestion - simply used the monolight and thats all. You don't need to complicate things. Use your 18-5x lense and set your lighting to F8 to f11. Lighting dirctly in front of the subjects. Subjects at least 4 feet fron the background (prefer 6) and place your light about 6 to 8 feet from the subject. Light should wrap arond subject to eliminate body shadow. You could use a tripod (remember to turn off iS if you do).

Most important, whatever method you use, try it out first at the actual location. This eliminated or at least reduces problems and increases ones confidence.
my suggestion - simply used the monolight and that... (show quote)

Thank you for replying to my message. The "test" I did yesterday was with the moonlight and soft box. I think that is the route I'm taking. May I ask about the reasoning for placing my subjects that far from the backdrop? I'm not sure how much room I will have. I agree and will certainly set up earlier enough so I can do a test run and have time to make adjustments. I need all the confidence building I can get.

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Jan 15, 2012 11:43:01   #
mgemstone Loc: Chicago/Cocoa beach/La/NY
 
It is to wrap the light around the subjet and light the background to reduce harsh shadows of the subjects bodt. if the light is directly in front of the subject, this will also reduce shadow. You could place your subjects very close to the background and live with a slight shadow/dark halow around them. what you do also depends on how clear do you want the butterfly background to show up. The further away from the background your subject is placed, the less light with fall on the background.

you could experiment at home using the background and using something to simulate the the people you are photographing such as a mop in a bucket with a blanket draped over it. Experiment to see what you like as far as distances and the relationship among the background, subject, light and camera positions. Also take you camera flash with you as a backup. Good luck

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Jan 15, 2012 11:55:50   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
mgemstone wrote:
It is to wrap the light around the subjet and light the background to reduce harsh shadows of the subjects bodt. if the light is directly in front of the subject, this will also reduce shadow. You could place your subjects very close to the background and live with a slight shadow/dark halow around them. what you do also depends on how clear do you want the butterfly background to show up. The further away from the background your subject is placed, the less light with fall on the background.

you could experiment at home using the background and using something to simulate the the people you are photographing such as a mop in a bucket with a blanket draped over it. Experiment to see what you like as far as distances and the relationship among the background, subject, light and camera positions. Also take you camera flash with you as a backup. Good luck
It is to wrap the light around the subjet and ligh... (show quote)


That makes so much sense when you outline it like that. I did try a test of sorts yesterday and had the light next to the camera. There didn't seem to be much shadowing and the butterflies showed up well. I wouldn't care about the butterfly so much but the committee wants it to show. It kind of documents the theme for each year. Some of the little girls will attend that dance five times.

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Jan 15, 2012 12:08:58   #
Julieb Loc: LaSalle, Colorado
 
maxamillion wrote:
Before any one starts telling me I shouldn't do this--I know. I've been volunteered and didn't say no. So what I would like is some help on setting up. The event is a father/daughter dance at an elementary school. (Previous photographer can't do it and I believe she used on camera flash.)

The set-up will be in the hallway and I believe is lit with florescent lighting. I have a black background--it will have butterflies on it to follow the theme. The dads will be sitting on a stool with daughters next to dad. The shots will be full length so the girls' dresses can be seen. This is what the committee requires.

I have a Canon Xsi and a 18-55mm IS lens (also have a 75-300). I have a 430ex with a small plastic diffuser and a tripod. I also have a monolight with a soft box (son's cast-off.) I have no reflectors.

I have thought about using the soft box tipped to the vertical placing it adjacent to the camera with the camera at about eye level to the father. The soft box would be slightly higher than the camera with a slight tilt. Or I could just use my flash on-camera with the diffuser. I would also like any input you have on camera settings. I was thinking an using AV with f/11 to make sure everything is in focus. (and BTW--what should be my main focus point?)

I am worried about the school lighting and whatever I decide to use especially concerning color cast. I have no way to practice the exact lighting situation here at home and can't get into the school until night of. I am going to practice the different set-ups today when my friend brings her granddaughter over to see about hot spots or nasty shadows.

I guess my question is about the combination lighting. Do you experienced folks think this will work? Sorry if the post is so long but wanted to give you as much detail as possible in order to help any responses I might get. I will greatly appreciate any help given. TIA.
Before any one starts telling me I shouldn't do th... (show quote)


You are probably already doing this, but photograph in RAW. You can modify any "off" white balance problems in PP.

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Jan 15, 2012 12:39:21   #
jon steel Loc: Fairfax, Virginia
 
Just a thought, go to the school and ask the janitor what bulbs does he use to replace the ceiling lights. From that information you should be able to determine the color.

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Jan 15, 2012 12:48:19   #
maxamillion Loc: Hampden Maine
 
Jon Steel and Julieb--I thank you both for taking the time to respond to my message. Julieb--I do shoot in raw. Jon--I will call the school next week and find out about the bulbs. Perhaps I am worrying about fluorescent lights for nothing!

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Jan 15, 2012 13:02:16   #
senad55verizon.net Loc: Milford, NJ
 
Maybe there's not enough time to get into this before your shoot, but you need to investigate what can be done with a well-designed flash diffusing system. They range widely from a little white plastic cap you slip on your flash head to much more elaborate ones that can even control the white balance of your image.

The best diffusers involve directing a significant part of your light output to bounce off the ceiling and surrounding walls. The whole notion of bouncing a harsh light source off a ceiling is an age-old solution to the perfectly awful things that happen when you point a small bright source directly at the subject.

For an overview, google "flash diffuser". You should have a flash head with a lot of output.

I shoot events, and would not consider leaving home without a set of Gary Fong diffusers. You need to spend a bit of time learning how they work in relation to the immediate environment of the shoot, but you can save yourself a great deal of time and trouble doing setups and still come home with great images.

Fong's website has a lot of demonstrations and instructional material. Doesn't cost a thing to read them.

(I have no connection with Fong or his company, other than being a grateful user of his products)


Regards...

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