venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

papayanivana said in part:

"""""My agenda...let's see, in general I think people should mind their own business and not get involved in other peoples business. Why does it bother Christians so much what other people call their personal relationship?""""""

Inasmuch as you say in this particular part of this post the People should mind their own business and then immediately go into a further diatribe about Christians....

If it were so that YOU were keeping your nose out of other persons business, YOU would ignore them even if they were saying things you did not believe in....

Am I right or wrong....

Mike

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

Scripture is not outdated as written, but has been updated by the birth/life and death of Jesus Christ....

Question: "What does it mean that Christians are not under the law?"

Answer: An exposition of Romans 10:4, which says: "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes," will help in understanding what is means that Christians are not under the law. The apostle Paul clarifies the effects of original sin in Romans 2:12, stating "All who sin apart from the law will perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." All men stand condemned before God, whether they are Jews or not, or to put it another way, whether they have the Law of God or not. Paul also states "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

If we are without Christ, we are justly condemned in God’s sight by the Law that was given to His servant Moses. However, we might argue that those who are not Jewish and therefore do not benefit from the knowledge of the Mosaic Law (including the moral and ceremonial laws), should not be condemned in the same way. This is dealt with by the Apostle in Romans 2:14-15, where he states that the Gentiles have the essence of God’s legal requirements already ingrained and so are just as much without excuse.

The Law is the issue that has to be dealt with in order to bring us into a right relationship with God. "Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified" (Galatians 2:16). This passage reveals that the Law cannot justify or make righteous any man in God’s sight, which is why God sent His Son to completely fulfil the requirements of the Law for all those who would ever believe in Him.

Christ Jesus redeemed us from the curse that has been brought through the law by becoming a curse for us (Galatians 3:13). He substituted Himself in our place and upon the cross took the punishment that is justly ours so that we are no longer under the curse of the Law. In doing so, He fulfilled and upheld the requirements of the Law. This does not mean that Christians are to be lawless, as some advocate today—a teaching called antinomianism. Rather, it means that we are free from the Mosaic Law and instead under the law of Christ, which is to love God with all of our being and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves.

Christ became the end of the Law by virtue of what He did on earth through His sinless life and His sacrifice on the cross. So, the Law no longer has any bearing over us because its demands have been fully met in the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ who satisfied the righteous demands of the Law restores us into a pleasing relationship with God and keeps us there. No longer under the penalty of the Law, we now live under the law of grace in the love of God.

Recommended Resources: The End of the Law: Mosaic Covenant in Pauline Theology by Jason Meyer and Logos Bible Software

Mike

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

and you might take a look at this....

Did Jesus contradict the Bible by not stoning the woman caught in adultery?

Those who do not want to believe the Bible is the Word of God will stop at nothing to try and disprove the Bible (even making fools of themselves claiming that there are “contradictions” in the Bible and then using lame arguments based on vaguely similar passages that “seem” to contradict each other). Here is the latest “argument” for a contradiction in the Bible. Was Jesus contradicting Moses when He did not command the woman caught in adultery to be stoned? Let’s take a look at the Word of God and see what we can determine.

1) Moses‘ scenario says the following . . .

10 ‘If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

I want you to notice a few things here.

They are caught.
Both are to be put to death.
There is to be no partiality.

2) Jesus‘ scenario says the following . . .

2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 “Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women ; what then do You say ?” 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”] (John 8 )

I want you to notice a few things here.

People came to Jesus to learn.
He was ready to teach those who came to learn.
The religious leaders came to Him too.
They were not interested in learning.
They just wanted to trap Him.
The brought a woman whom they claim they “caught” in the act of adultery.
They only brought to woman to be tried and punished.
They did not bring the man.
They were not seeking justice.
They were not trying to learn anything.
They were trying to trick Jesus and make Him look bad (like the atheists and their “contradictions” in the Bible).
Jesus taught them a lesson even though they did not come to learn one.
In order to uphold the Law of Moses, both participants were to be tried and put to death.
If Jesus would have condemned her to death He would have broken the Law of Moses
There is no contradiction here.
Jesus actually works according to the Law of Moses by not breaking it.
When He asked, “he who is without sin” they all left because they were all sinning in this specific situation by showing partiality and not bringing the man to be tried as well.
Jesus took the Law of Moses one step further (He perfected It) by forgiving the woman (something that the Law could not do because It could only condemn).

As you can see, there is no contradiction here. The atheists, like the religious leaders of Jesus’ day, are left with a lesson learned and should walk away with their “tales between their legs” in shame and defeat. What would be better though, instead of like the religious leaders who were proud and arrogant, the atheists should humble themselves and come to this Jesus who was able to forgive the adulteress woman. He can forgive them as well if they will humble themselves like she did. What about you, are you like the atheists and religious leaders? Do you walk away full of pride and arrogance or do you bow your knee to Jesus Christ? Know this, if you do not do it now by choice, one day you will do it by force but it will be too late for you then. Why not do it now by choice and avoid the wrath to come?


Mike

papayanirvana Loc: Kauai

Wrong... the way this country is run is my business! When a minority is denied equal protection under the laws of our country because their lifestyle is considered a sin by religious zealots... it becomes my business...and as an American citizen, it should be your business, too.

It is my business to expose pretzel bullshit logic and bigoted ideas.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Do you know of any other Gods? There is only one God, the same God that created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Why should I feel defensive? Should I be afraid of you? Man can only kill the body, rather fear God who can destroy both body and soul.

It is my business also to expose false doctrine and bigotry.

amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN

And you know that how?

amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN

One believes the Bible, both old and new testaments, were written(or dictated) by 'God', who/whatever he/she/it is. Or one believes it was written by people with agendas. Or it was written by people with agendas but still inspired.

Whatever the belief, that's all it is-a belief. Not one person can PROVE the Bible is inspired, written by God, or any other thing about it. Yes, places and people mentioned in the Bible have been discovered. That proves little to nothing. You either believe what is written or you don't.

And the reason people get overheated about it is because it IS used to control. If it were not, then people would have absolutely NO reason to care what anyone else thinks about it. But because they think it's true and because they want to control what other people think and do, then they use it to beat people over the head, to ostracize people, to demean people, to take liberties from people.

I don't care what any person believes about religion. I do care that they try everything they know, including war, to get everyone else to believe as they do.

This is what I believe. When we understand that love and respect for ALL people as children of a Creator is the way to conduct life, then that is when the world will change. As long as we continue to think that there is only one way to run the world and you have that way, then nothing of any consequence will be accomplished, other than likely blowing up the planet in order to prove your point.

venturer9 Loc: Newton, Il.

Amy,,,,, I will not argue with you about anything you said above..

But I have a question or two..

I live in a town of 3200 people... We do not have any quarrel with Gays (there at least 2 guy couples and 3 girl couples) or Blacks ..My church has a Black Male and 7 Black Children (none of them his) Yesterday we got a Chinese 2 year old and we have two adults with Down Syndrome... All welcome and enjoyed for who they are.

a question is
If it bothers you so much that "Christians" try to shove our beliefs down your throat.... Does it bother you as much that atheists demand that we not have a creche on the Courthouse lawn at Christmas or that we (we don't) take down a Cross on a piece of property where it has been since 1957

Does it bother you that the words... """"""The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion"""""" has been perverted as it has been to show that the picture of Jesus or small cross or small bible taken to school by a child or teacher or put on wall by the teacher is determined to be against the constitution because the government has established a religion by allowing it..

Does it bother you that we have a Black Pride Parade but a riot would start if we had a White Pride Parade.

Does it bother you that basically any religion OTHER than Christianity is FREE from harassment in the public arena and in the various forms of liberal Media outlets..

Does it bother you that if I beat up or kill a Black man and while do it call him a N........ t is a racist crime. But if a black man kills me, calling me honky and white ass cracker while doing it ... It is very seldom if ever called a hate crime....

Does it...??

Mike

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Thank you Mike, I could not have said it better.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Danilo Loc: Las Vegas

In my opinion the video is a hopeless failure in every aspect. If any money was spent on it, I hope it went to good people who needed money.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

And that is what you believe? Is what you believe more important than what I believe? When are you going to stop shoving your humanist views down everyone one elses throats? Your way is better? Says you...

magicray Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida

If it were an "attack" at all, it would be an "attack" on Jews. All the examples were from the Old Testament. Christians, of course, weren't even around then.

magicray Loc: Tampa Bay, Florida

:lol:

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

Without the Old Testament there would be not New Testament - without the Jews there would be no Christians.

The OP was directing his post at Christians...

Collie lover Loc: St. Louis, MO

This is so true. Jesus was Jewish, not Christian.