What ever happened to the going rate for photography services?
Dec 27, 2013 07:37:45 #
Seems the craiglisters out there with a camera call themselves a pro and work for next to nothing, driving the going rate for photography way down. Your thoughts on this? What do YOU consider a fair rate today for different genres of photography such as portraits, weddings, pets, product, etc.?
Dec 27, 2013 07:38:50 #
NewzShooter wrote:
Seems the craiglisters out there with a camera call themselves a pro and work for next to nothing, driving the going rate for photography way down. Your thoughts on this? What do YOU consider a fair rate today for different genres of photography such as portraits, weddings, pets, product, etc.?
Would you want to hire a cut-rate photographer for "that special day"?
Dec 27, 2013 07:44:38 #
jerryc41 wrote:
Would you want to hire a cut-rate photographer for "that special day"?
Absolutely not, BUT there are too many people out there who are more concerned about a cheap price than they are about quality. And what do YOU think rates should be for various types of shoots? I remember the days of $3500 for a wedding, now a wedding shoot can be had for $200 or even less (craigslist).
Dec 27, 2013 07:54:24 #
NewzShooter wrote:
Absolutely not, BUT
there are too many people out there who are more concerned about a cheap price than they are about quality. And what do YOU think rates should be for various types of shoots? I remember the days of $3500 for a wedding, now a wedding shoot can be had for $200 or even less (craigslist).
On the positive side: Those "photographer's" don't last long. There is no way one can shoot "a wedding" for $200. A couple of posed studio portraits maybe and even then, only with inferior lighting....
Might be an interesting exercise for someone with too much time on their hands to see just how long these cheapies last on Craig's List, and even more interesting, to interview the subjects after they have received their wedding photos.
Dec 27, 2013 07:58:10 #
You have cut rate people in all fields. I am a building contractor by trade and often fix things someone else has repaired. The problem with ruining pictures on that special day- you can't fix it. When a potential customer asked me why I am higher than the next guy I show them my previous work. Now having said that I make some money taking pictures at youth sports events, I have a nice camera and some good lens but when my daughter got married I paid 3800.00 to someone who does it full time and had a nice collection to show us ahead of time. The pictures came out great. I guess what I am saying in all fields if you can show them why you are better most will pay more for quality work and when they don't they usually wish they had later.
Dec 27, 2013 07:59:18 #
Morning Star wrote:
On the positive side: Those "photographer's" don't last long. There is no way one can shoot "a wedding" for $200. A couple of posed studio portraits maybe and even then, only with inferior lighting....
Might be an interesting exercise for someone with too much time on their hands to see just how long these cheapies last on Craig's List, and even more interesting, to interview the subjects after they have received their wedding photos.
Might be an interesting exercise for someone with too much time on their hands to see just how long these cheapies last on Craig's List, and even more interesting, to interview the subjects after they have received their wedding photos.
How true for the most part, but some of those craiglisters, believe it or not, have been around for quite awhile. As for results, I've had brides and grooms turn me down in favor of the $150 photog, then bring me a CD of the images and ask me to fix them. Of course I said "NO WAY!".
But, as to my original question what do YOU feel the going rates should be today for portrait, wedding, pet, product, etc., photography? Rate for shooting, rate for editing, rate for disc of images, rates for prints?
Dec 27, 2013 08:42:18 #
NewzShooter wrote:
But, as to my original question
what do YOU feel the going rates should be today for portrait, wedding, pet, product, etc., photography? Rate for shooting, rate for editing, rate for disc of images, rates for prints?
Personally, I would not do weddings commercially - the only ones I've done were for close relatives as a wedding gift. And I keep the originals. I gave the bride and groom a Blurb album, and the password so that others could buy the same album directly from Blurb.
For commercial pricing, there are a number of things to consider:
Your initial consultation, while it shouldn't oblige the couple to use your services, should be calculated in their end price.
Second consultation, to discuss and make a list of exactly what photos the couple want.
Your investment: camera, lens, flash, to start with - percentage of that cost.
Your travel time to and from the wedding (car, gas, insurance)
Your actual time there to take photos
Your post processing time @ set rate - it shouldn't be the couple's cost if you take lousy photos that need a lot of processing, nor your advantage if they all turn out really well SOOC and don't need any PP.
Printing cost, presentation cost (album, framing, etc).
You need to live and eat, therefore you need to make a profit.
Something, anything, could go wrong: you forget to put a fresh card in your camera, a guest trips over your camera bag and breaks a leg,... so you need liability insurance.
If it's a large, formal wedding, you need a second shooter.
One thing that I think is essential, but I don't hear much about, is that you need a legally binding contract, setting out exactly what your obligations are and what the couple's obligations are.
For in-studio portraits, product photography, etc., make a list of the actual cost of setting up, taking the photos, etc., and go from there. But have it all figured out beforehand, so that you can tell your customer and exact $-amount.
OK, just my two-bits worth, there probably are items I have not thought about...
Dec 27, 2013 09:07:05 #
NewzShooter wrote:
Seems the craiglisters out there with a camera call themselves a pro and work for next to nothing, driving the going rate for photography way down. Your thoughts on this? What do YOU consider a fair rate today for different genres of photography such as portraits, weddings, pets, product, etc.?
A while ago I would have said "off with their heads!" because they were driving down fees for reputable, tax paying photogs but....
Now I'm not going to say that.
I read Zach Arias' book (101 Q&A) and one of the questions is that question exactly.
He said that everyone has to make a living, and break into the business SOMEHOW, and gain experience before they can charge "typical" prices.
Also, they provide a service for people who would not spend 2500.00 on a photographer.
Here is a link to his answer:
http://www.zarias.com/cheap-photographers-only-kill-themselves-not-the-industry/
Also Roberto Valenzuela tackled this question also, he said:
" You want to have your craft honed so well...that people come to YOU...because YOU are the only one who can deliver what they want to see, so even in a shrinking market where the competition is fierce...you will have clients because they MUST come to YOU for what YOU can deliver."
I'd say that's good advice.
If your shots look like everyone else's and the only thing that separates you from the wanna-be's is price...then.....
Dec 27, 2013 12:19:19 #
The guy that does the $200 Wedding probable shoots the wedding and puts the unedited pictures on a disk and hands it to the couple. Depending on how good a shooter he is the B&G may be very happy with them. He may have spent an hour signing them up and 2 hrs at the wedding. His cost perhaps $50. He makes $150 for three hours work. Don't knock him. Their are many that that is all they can afford. If he has a good eye he will keep busy. Folks that need an inexpensive photographer general have friends that do too and will recommend him or her.
We go from this to the guy that has two extra shooters and each taking two or three thousand shots. He has two eight hour days editing and doing PP on them. He has spent eight hours in consultation with the B&G or pays someone else to do the consultations. He and his helpers have the big white lenses that are big time bucks. He has to charge the big bucks just to cover all the expenses and time he puts into the weddings.
Their are several steps in between the two. The ones that get bad results do not last no mater what they charge.
The more you charge the more important to let the customer know why you charge more. If you have someone that brings you some bad shots that can be "fixed" go ahead and fix them but charge what the picture would have cost if you had taken it or a little more because of the extra work fixing it.
You need to decide what prices you want to charge and then be able to explain why you charge them. - Dave
We go from this to the guy that has two extra shooters and each taking two or three thousand shots. He has two eight hour days editing and doing PP on them. He has spent eight hours in consultation with the B&G or pays someone else to do the consultations. He and his helpers have the big white lenses that are big time bucks. He has to charge the big bucks just to cover all the expenses and time he puts into the weddings.
Their are several steps in between the two. The ones that get bad results do not last no mater what they charge.
The more you charge the more important to let the customer know why you charge more. If you have someone that brings you some bad shots that can be "fixed" go ahead and fix them but charge what the picture would have cost if you had taken it or a little more because of the extra work fixing it.
You need to decide what prices you want to charge and then be able to explain why you charge them. - Dave
Dec 27, 2013 12:44:43 #
Funny we are talking about this now as my daughter is currently planning her wedding. I was asked if I wanted to do the photography, which I quickly and firmly declined--I'm not, nor do I ever want to be, a wedding photographer. Besides, not only are there some amazing pros, way beyond my skills, who specialize in capturing these events, frankly, I want to kick back and enjoy the party.
So I gave them a few contacts and after speaking to two of them, my daughter comes back and tells me that the groom's family seems to think the prices they are getting are a little expensive. They tell her that they have a "friend" who can do it for much less than the two quotes she has gotten so far.
This last weekend, I took her over to my friend's place, a gal who also specializes in weddings, to walk her through just what she is getting and the differences to look for between Pros, as well as Pro vs "friend."
Frankly, I was surprised, and impressed with, just how much more Pro's now include with their service just to keep up and compete in todays market. Daughter was too. She is now certain she will go with a pro, and I offered to cover the bill as my gift. On a side note, one she interviewed this week, and really liked, also includes a couple composite creations as part of her package--and from the little I saw, she does some amazing composite work.
So I gave them a few contacts and after speaking to two of them, my daughter comes back and tells me that the groom's family seems to think the prices they are getting are a little expensive. They tell her that they have a "friend" who can do it for much less than the two quotes she has gotten so far.
This last weekend, I took her over to my friend's place, a gal who also specializes in weddings, to walk her through just what she is getting and the differences to look for between Pros, as well as Pro vs "friend."
Frankly, I was surprised, and impressed with, just how much more Pro's now include with their service just to keep up and compete in todays market. Daughter was too. She is now certain she will go with a pro, and I offered to cover the bill as my gift. On a side note, one she interviewed this week, and really liked, also includes a couple composite creations as part of her package--and from the little I saw, she does some amazing composite work.
Dec 27, 2013 13:09:24 #
NewzShooter wrote:
How true for the most part, but some of those crai... (show quote)
Wrong answer.
"I can do my PS magic on these for $40 per image"
Or whatever it would have cost for YOU to have taken and processed the image from the get-go.
As to your 'original' question.
PLEASE STOP ASKING AS WE CAN"T TELL YOU WHAT'S FAIR IN YOUR MARKET!!!!!
All we *might* do is tell you what OUR rates are, but that's what WE think is fair in OUR market with OUR experience and abilities.
Pricing your work is VERY complicated and even baffles the pros I hang out with on another forum, and in my local pro association. There are quite a number of on-line seminars devoted completely to this subject.
Dec 27, 2013 13:24:10 #
kcornman wrote:
Funny we are talking about this now as my daughter... (show quote)
Well done!
As a general rule of thumb, photography should cost about 10% of the cost of the ENTIRE wedding. And that means EVERYTHING.
What do you take away from your wedding?
The food's been eaten, liquor's been drunk, limo ride's over, dress goes into storage, friends have all gone home.
What's left?
Memories.
Immortalized in photos.
And not just for you, but for your children, grandchildren......
Not just photographs, but physical prints.
Do you ever pull up the digital images you took more than a few days ago? Will your descendants be able to?
We still look at our parent's wedding albums.
And wedding images back to the post Civil War era.
So, again, WELL DONE! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Dec 27, 2013 16:16:02 #
Like all things in life - some people can talk the talk and make a fortune out of a penny washer and a scare story whilst others break their heart earning an honest pittance.
look around you - where are the artisans, the masons, those taking on apprentices. When was the last manager you spoke to grey haired. We have help lines run by teenagers and generic advice via web pages.A professional is anyone who does something for money and an expert is someone who can pontificate on what they were told to say as if they had thought of it.
Price is a figment of other peoples imagination whether you are buying or selling.
Welcome to the world of the free market economy.
Britain showed you how to make it.
The US showed you how to sell it fast and cheap.
The Pacific Rim countries showed you how to make it in quantity cheaper.
Now CEO.s work out who gets to be deluded into making a 'living' next in a world where Countries are falling apart.
If you want to sell something - just do it. Don't think about being fair or honest. Don't worry if you don't know what you are doing - tell lies. look after number one first last and everything in between. Your role model should be your politicians....if its ok for them its ok for you.
look around you - where are the artisans, the masons, those taking on apprentices. When was the last manager you spoke to grey haired. We have help lines run by teenagers and generic advice via web pages.A professional is anyone who does something for money and an expert is someone who can pontificate on what they were told to say as if they had thought of it.
Price is a figment of other peoples imagination whether you are buying or selling.
Welcome to the world of the free market economy.
Britain showed you how to make it.
The US showed you how to sell it fast and cheap.
The Pacific Rim countries showed you how to make it in quantity cheaper.
Now CEO.s work out who gets to be deluded into making a 'living' next in a world where Countries are falling apart.
If you want to sell something - just do it. Don't think about being fair or honest. Don't worry if you don't know what you are doing - tell lies. look after number one first last and everything in between. Your role model should be your politicians....if its ok for them its ok for you.
Dec 28, 2013 05:38:28 #
Dec 28, 2013 06:38:15 #
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