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Is anyone on AMW considering buying Sony's A7 or A7R?
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Oct 28, 2013 11:13:05   #
unclebe1 Loc: NYC & Wellington, FL
 
Dave,

I'm not a macro guy. I don't have the patience. The red dragon fly was taken with the zoom out to 100mm and from a few feet away. (I always turn off the digital zoom function on compacts. I only use the optical zoom. If I want to zoom in digitally, I'll do it in pp with Lightroom or Elements.) The shot I uploaded is cropped. Here is the full shot. The RX100 was on auto, so I don't know what 'scene mode' it selected. My purpose was just to show you how good a shot the Sony can take even when it is in 'snapshot' mode.

Like you, my heavyweight is the A850 (I couldn't justify the added cost of the A900. I didn't see myself using any of the additional functionality, like wireless remote.) With the vertical grip and good glass, it is a true heavy weight. And, like you and others, I've had my finger on the trigger with the Nex-7 and the A99, but didn't shoot. I'm looking forward to next year to see what improvements Sony comes out with for the Alpha mount. While the RX100 is great and I use it a lot, I can't see myself using it in all situations. I still want a high quality full frame package. If I get to the point that I just can't carry it around any more, I'll probably move down to a MILC or 4/3 package and save my aching shoulders and back. :lol:

Uncropped dragon fly shot
Uncropped dragon fly shot...

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Oct 28, 2013 11:14:55   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
Peekayoh wrote:
I think you understand it pretty well, Dave. You can't get away from basic physics or optics if you prefer, it all comes down to magnification and the more you magnify, the shallower falls the DOF.

Where it all falls down is that the smaller sensor gives you more apparent DOF but it needs more magnification when you come to print, it's swings and roundabouts. That's where sensor density really becomes a factor, if you choose a small sensor for the DOF advantage close up, you really need a very high density to combat the larger sensor's size advantage but you have that in the RX100 although you need to watch the noise.
I think you understand it pretty well, Dave. You c... (show quote)


I think it has something to do with how the lenses are made that are attached to small format cameras. I think my Ricoh GX100 is best at extreme close-ups but does have noise problems at other than very low ISO. The Sony RX100M2 has remarkably good noise characteristics! I have been leaving in auto mode, letting the camera choose the ISO. I have not been bothered by noise yet.

"it's swings and roundabouts"????? I don't understand? That must be a British expression.

BTW, this past weekend I traveled deep into West Virgina. The people there speak with a unique accent. I became interested in why they have a musical cadence to their speech and their pronunciation was so different. I researched it on the Internet and discovered that the English spoken there is a hold over from the isolated mountain people, who migrated to the colonies. They were "broader people" from Northern England and Southern Scotland. It's Shakespeare's English with a Scottish flavor. In the UK your language has evolved but there is time capsule in these isolated mountain people that still has the sound reminiscent of their British 17th century ancestors.

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Oct 28, 2013 16:41:40   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
Ready for vacation with my RX100M2 w/ EVF in the case on my hip. I also have an extra battery and memory card in that pouch. The camera within the case is screwed into the bottom part of the leather case with leather neck strap attached. I make it a practice to always use a neck strap. You only need to drop a camera once to learn that lesson.

Not a cool look I know, but it's better than lugging my A900 that was used to take this photo.

The Yank is coming.
The Yank is coming....

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Oct 28, 2013 17:12:49   #
unclebe1 Loc: NYC & Wellington, FL
 
Wait a sec....the Sony is in its custom leather case, inside the belt case and screwed down to boot??? Isn't that overdoing the safety thing just a tad? :) Enjoy your trip and don't forget to keep us posted with shots of your adventures. Did you also purchase a users guide? I finally broke down and purchased one and downloaded it to my Kindle and smartphone. There were just too many bells and whistles on the camera. I had to get a manual.

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Oct 28, 2013 17:17:05   #
unclebe1 Loc: NYC & Wellington, FL
 
Wait a sec....the Sony is in its custom leather case, inside the belt case and screwed down to boot??? Isn't that overdoing the safety thing just a tad? :) Enjoy your trip and don't forget to keep us posted with shots of your adventures. Did you also purchase a users guide? I finally broke down and purchased one and downloaded it to my Kindle and smartphone. There were just too many bells and whistles on the camera. I had to get a manual.

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Oct 28, 2013 21:37:30   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
unclebe1 wrote:
Wait a sec....the Sony is in its custom leather case, inside the belt case and screwed down to boot??? Isn't that overdoing the safety thing just a tad? :) Enjoy your trip and don't forget to keep us posted with shots of your adventures. Did you also purchase a users guide? I finally broke down and purchased one and downloaded it to my Kindle and smartphone. There were just too many bells and whistles on the camera. I had to get a manual.


The lower half of Sony's leather case screws into the base of the camera. Because I keep the EVF on the camera I can not snap on the top part of the leather case that covers the rest of the camera. The lower part of the case comes with a nice strong neck strap, so I use it. I think the leather pouch provides a more secure and convenient way to carry it than keeping it dangling from my neck.

Yes, I have the e-book that should have come with the camera.

I have the one-touch (NFC) "Near field communication" working with my wife's iPhone. This means I'll be able to wirelessly transfer images from my camera to her phone, and from there to the Internet!

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Oct 28, 2013 23:24:15   #
unclebe1 Loc: NYC & Wellington, FL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
The lower half of Sony's leather case screws into the base of the camera. Because I keep the EVF on the camera I can not snap on the top part of the leather case that covers the rest of the camera. The lower part of the case comes with a nice strong neck strap, so I use it. I think the leather pouch provides a more secure and convenient way to carry it than keeping it dangling from my neck.

Yes, I have the e-book that should have come with the camera.

I have the one-touch (NFC) "Near field communication" working with my wife's iPhone. This means I'll be able to wirelessly transfer images from my camera to her phone, and from there to the Internet!
The lower half of Sony's leather case screws into ... (show quote)


Ah, that makes more sense! The way I initially read it, I thought the camera was screwed into the bottom of the leather case you wear on your belt. I have an old Voigtlander with a beautiful leather case that works the same way as the RX100 leather case. I'm not big on camera cases. When I started with 35mm slrs in the 70s, they were commonly called 'never ready' cases. Just one of those things. Actually I'm off to B&H tomorrow to buy a small belt case for the RX100, so I can carry it around easily even when I don't have a jacket. It fits in my pants pockets, but it's not a comfortable fit.
:lol:

The manual that came with the camera was virtually useless. (at least to me, that is)

I like the NFC feature. Easy to share photos!!!

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Oct 29, 2013 05:21:34   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
unclebe1 wrote:


The manual that came with the camera was virtually useless. (at least to me, that is)

I like the NFC feature. Easy to share photos!!!


Totally agree with the above. I don't see how anyone can understand how to use the features built into these camera from the little manual that comes with it. The e-book I have is very extensive and explains thing with a bit of humor tossed in. I was even confused on how to use the manual mode until just yesterday when I read it in my e-book. When I return from vacation I'm going to buy a new loaded Mac Book Pro. The new ones include NFC so I will not even need to connect a a cable to "squirt" the images from my camera into the computer. I was at the Apple store yesterday deciding what I want to buy. I had my RX100M2 with me so I was taking photos of computers and even the store front, when a mall cop came to me and told me that photography is not allowed. So turned it off (until he was out of sight).

BTW, I just moved from Manassas VA to PA three years ago. I believe I used to bike on a trail that started in Fairfax Station.

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Oct 29, 2013 06:02:36   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
Peekayoh wrote:
Yep, "frog suit" sounds good.
Tonight we get 80mph winds, torrential rain and flooding.
Hang on to your hats!


Your weather has made our news. 90 mph were reported on our news! Good grief! I hope the buildings are still standing when I get there.

In an attempt to avoid jet lag, I'm getting up and hour earlier and going to bed an hour earlier each day for the rest of this week.

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Oct 29, 2013 18:09:53   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
Made from a RAW file from an RX100 II, processed in DxO.



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Oct 29, 2013 18:45:56   #
JPL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
As a Sony A900 owner with drawers full Alpha-Mount lenses I was anxiously looking forward to today's announcement of the A7 and A7R. I thought I would be able to simply buy a simple adapter for it and be able to use all my Alpha-mount lenses on it. Plus I would be able to use a drawer full of old Konica manual focus lenses I have, again with the use of a simple adapter.

The first disappointment was the lack of IBIS (In Body Image Stabilization). Sony Alpha mount lenses do not have any anti-shake built into them. We are dependent on the camera to provide that. I suppose I could live without IBIS but then came a second disappointment. The $200 adapter for the A7x cameras does not include screw drive, needed for the majority of my Alpha lenses! If I spend $350 I can buy a different adapter that has a mirror built into it. I thought the idea of buying an A7x was that we were going to get away from lenses! This looks like a kluge.

I'm torn. I have read rumors that a model made for Alpha-mount fans will be coming out early next year. I doubt that I will be able to use my legacy (Konica) lenses on that camera. :roll: :cry:

I think I'm going to hold off until I understand this better.
As a Sony A900 owner with drawers full Alpha-Mount... (show quote)


Seems like Sony does not have anything of interest for you right now. I suggest you keep on using your A900 for awhile and see what Sony will bring to the market in 2014. Like you say the A7-A7r can probably not use your lenses to the fullest. But on top of that you are not getting much difference with the A7 type from your A900. With the A7r you get the well proven 36,3 mpx sensor of the Nikon D800e but that is not much of an improvement for you as your old lenses will limit the results so you are not better off with 36,3 mpx than you already are with your A900 and 24 mpx sensor.

And that is something you must keep in mind with increased pixel numbers. To get the benefits of more pixels to your pics, you must use only the very best glass available. That means if you want to upgrade to a camera with more pixels on the sensor, you must also upgrade your glass, otherwise the pictures will look no better than those you already get with your A900.

Hope this helps.

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Oct 29, 2013 19:17:38   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
JPL wrote:
Seems like Sony does not have anything of interest for you right now. I suggest you keep on using your A900 for awhile and see what Sony will bring to the market in 2014. Like you say the A7-A7r can probably not use your lenses to the fullest. But on top of that you are not getting much difference with the A7 type from your A900. With the A7r you get the well proven 36,3 mpx sensor of the Nikon D800e but that is not much of an improvement for you as your old lenses will limit the results so you are not better off with 36,3 mpx than you already are with your A900 and 24 mpx sensor.

And that is something you must keep in mind with increased pixel numbers. To get the benefits of more pixels to your pics, you must use only the very best glass available. That means if you want to upgrade to a camera with more pixels on the sensor, you must also upgrade your glass, otherwise the pictures will look no better than those you already get with your A900.

Hope this helps.
Seems like Sony does not have anything of interest... (show quote)


I have some lenses that might hold up to 36 MP scrutiny. My my cz 24~70mm f/2.8, G 300mm f/2.8, and few others that seem like they might have more to offer than is being asked of them by a 24 MP sensor.

I find the potential of using DxO correction modules with less than stellar glass/camera combinations. (See the example of a corrected image just above your post.) The RX100 does such correction in-camera with great results. The existence of a pre-existing correction modules is an important factor when I considering if I going to buy a lens. I just upgraded to version 9 of DxO and discovered that some of my older lenses are now covered.

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Oct 29, 2013 19:56:17   #
JPL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I have some lenses that might hold up to 36 MP scrutiny. My my cz 24~70mm f/2.8, G 300mm f/2.8, and few others that seem like they might have more to offer than is being asked of them by a 24 MP sensor.

I find the potential of using DxO correction modules with less than stellar glass/camera combinations. (See the example of a corrected image just above your post.) The RX100 does such correction in-camera with great results. The existence of a pre-existing correction modules is an important factor when I considering if I going to buy a lens. I just upgraded to version 9 of DxO and discovered that some of my older lenses are now covered.
I have some lenses that might hold up to 36 MP scr... (show quote)


Yes, I looked at the pic above my post, and it looks great. Seems like you know pretty well what you are doing.

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Oct 30, 2013 06:40:50   #
Peekayoh Loc: UK
 
Davethehiker wrote:
.... "it's swings and roundabouts"????? I don't understand? That must be a British expression. ....
Probably Dave, full expression being "what you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts" arising from the DOF advantage of the small sensor being offset by the greater up scaling for print.
Davethehiker wrote:
Your weather has made our news. 90 mph were reported on our news! Good grief! I hope the buildings are still standing when I get there. ...
Yes quite a bit of damage and 5 lives lost. We were fortunate being in the lee of the Black Mountains.

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Oct 30, 2013 06:42:30   #
Peekayoh Loc: UK
 
JPL wrote:
Seems like Sony does not have anything of interest for you right now. I suggest you keep on using your A900 for awhile and see what Sony will bring to the market in 2014. Like you say the A7-A7r can probably not use your lenses to the fullest. But on top of that you are not getting much difference with the A7 type from your A900. With the A7r you get the well proven 36,3 mpx sensor of the Nikon D800e but that is not much of an improvement for you as your old lenses will limit the results so you are not better off with 36,3 mpx than you already are with your A900 and 24 mpx sensor.

And that is something you must keep in mind with increased pixel numbers. To get the benefits of more pixels to your pics, you must use only the very best glass available. That means if you want to upgrade to a camera with more pixels on the sensor, you must also upgrade your glass, otherwise the pictures will look no better than those you already get with your A900.

Hope this helps.
Seems like Sony does not have anything of interest... (show quote)
Not much to disagree with but I have to tell you that it's not the same Sensor as the one from the D800e although the pixel count is the same. Rather than explaining the difference here, you may wish to look at this page for some insights. Sample images from pre production models certainly seem to confirm the quality but we'll have to wait for production models to know for sure.

Regarding lenses, whilst it's true that the new Sensor may out resolve some lenses, the final image will never be worse than that from a less dense Sensor.

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