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Is anyone on AMW considering buying Sony's A7 or A7R?
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Oct 21, 2013 12:19:20   #
Davethehiker
 
I contacted my friend and ask his permission to post his name here. He thanked me for asking and said he could lose credibility by publicly indorsing a particular camera. Some "expert" who disagrees with and has a different favorite travel camera could attack him.

I guess it like sitting down at new barber shop where you do not know the people and start talking about politics or religion. Someone might be interested in what you have to say but, there is a high probability that you will alienate more people.

As I wait for my Sony RX-100 MKII to arrive in the mail, I decided to take my prior "walk about" camera with me on a last walk together on a trail I cut into the forest on my property. The photos below were all taken yesterday with my little (Tiny) Ricoh GX200. The little GX200 excelled at macro work. I find it a bit clumsy to use.

The Ricoh was state of the art in 2008 when I bought it. Cameras age in dog years. :-P

I'm hopeful the RX-100 will serve me better than my GX-200 but it has some big shoes to fill.











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Oct 21, 2013 13:51:49   #
StephenVL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
@Racmanaz

Damn Pete, your good! Oh, what the hell. I feel like an ass for being so coy. :oops: It can't do any harm to just name the camera. He recommended I buy a Sony DSC-RX100M II. He also recommended that I do NOT buy the electronic view finder (EVF) that Sony makes to go with it. He points out that the EVF costs half again as much as the camera and destroys the pocketability the camera. He says that if you wear glasses, bright sun light can leak into the EVF. He suggests that one can tilt the screen on the back of the camera to escape the glare of sun light and to trust the auto-focus.

I'll ask his permission to give his name and also recommend his book, here on UHH. If he grants me permission, I'll spill all the beans.

Pete, you are yet another "expert" who must like that camera. I'll order one today.

All of that being said, I know many of you know a better camera. I'm sure your right. I don't want to start a debate.
@Racmanaz br br Damn Pete, your good! Oh, what t... (show quote)


As I am the owner of several Sony cameras I would like to comment on the Sony RX100 mII. I like to try all sorts of photography. Animals, Landscapes, flowers and more. My main go to camera is my Sony NEX 6. But when I go to the zoo I take my Sony A55 with my Minolta 100-400 zoom. I use this camera because of the in camera stabilization when using a zoom telephoto.
For landscapes I use my Nex-6 with the Zeiss 24mm lens or my Sony 10-18mm zoom. Great camera and both are great lenses. I expect that the new A7 when it arrives will be my go to camera for landscapes.
However my almost constant companion now is my Sony RX100 MII. It is my only camera that can fit in a pocket or a small holster on my belt. It takes great pictures and does not get in the way when I am involved in activities like cycling, hiking etc. or just sightseeing.
On the question of the optional viewfinder two things are true.
1. It is very expensive.
2. With my aging eyesight it is essential for me when I choose to manual focus.
I find that I end up mounting the viewfinder most of the time and highly recommend it if you can afford it.

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Oct 21, 2013 14:50:56   #
Davethehiker
 
StephenVL wrote:
As I am the owner of several Sony cameras I would like to comment on the Sony RX100 MII. I like to try all sorts of photography. Animals, Landscapes, flowers and more. My main go to camera is my Sony NEX 6. But when I go to the zoo I take my Sony A55 with my Minolta 100-400 zoom. I use this camera because of the in camera stabilization when using a zoom telephoto.
For landscapes I use my Nex-6 with the Zeiss 24mm lens or my Sony 10-18mm zoom. Great camera and both are great lenses. I expect that the new A7 when it arrives will be my go to camera for landscapes.
However my almost constant companion now is my Sony RX100 MII. It is my only camera that can fit in a pocket or a small holster on my belt. It takes great pictures and does not get in the way when I am involved in activities like cycling, hiking etc. or just sightseeing.
On the question of the optional viewfinder two things are true.
1. It is very expensive.
2. With my aging eyesight it is essential for me when I choose to manual focus.
I find that I end up mounting the viewfinder most of the time and highly recommend it if you can afford it.
As I am the owner of several Sony cameras I would ... (show quote)


Stephen,
Thank so much for your helpful comments. I can see how the optional viewfinder must make the camera much more bulky and harder to carry but I was afraid I would regret no having it as an option. Here is a link to the order I placed. (Yesterday they said 4 in stock. I see it's now down to three. I think means mine is on the way.)
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Cyber-Shot-DSC-RX100M-Vario-Sonnar-Viewfinder/dp/B00E3GDZEK/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1382274192&sr=8-19&keywords=Sony+DSC-RX100M+II
There is some junk included that I probably will never use, like the card reader and filters, but I wanted everything else to arrive at the same time so I would have it in time for vacation. This bundle had everything I wanted.

Have you ever attached any of your Sony flashes to this camera? I have many Sony flashes including the little HVL-F20AM that I normally use on my A900. I'm hoping that with the adapter that flash will fit this camera. On the other hand, I understand the flash on the camera is powerful and versatile. I think it's too much to expect the flash to act as the master in the Sony/Minolta master-slave flash system.

I'll open my friends book and see what he says about flashes.

Edit......

I does not work in the normal Sony big boy master slave mode. You could put a radio controller in the hot shoe. That sounds like too much trouble for use on a compact camaera.

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Oct 21, 2013 15:53:42   #
StephenVL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
Stephen,
Thank so much for your helpful comments. I can see how the optional viewfinder must make the camera much more bulky and harder to carry but I was afraid I would regret no having it as an option. Here is a link to the order I placed. (Yesterday they said 4 in stock. I see it's now down to three. I think means mine is on the way.)
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Cyber-Shot-DSC-RX100M-Vario-Sonnar-Viewfinder/dp/B00E3GDZEK/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1382274192&sr=8-19&keywords=Sony+DSC-RX100M+II
There is some junk included that I probably will never use, like the card reader and filters, but I wanted everything else to arrive at the same time so I would have it in time for vacation. This bundle had everything I wanted.

Have you ever attached any of your Sony flashes to this camera? I have many Sony flashes including the little HVL-F20AM that I normally use on my A900. I'm hoping that with the adapter that flash will fit this camera. On the other hand, I understand the flash on the camera is powerful and versatile. I think it's too much to expect the flash to act as the master in the Sony/Minolta master-slave flash system.

I'll open my friends book and see what he says about flashes.
Stephen, br Thank so much for your helpful comment... (show quote)


The first thing to understand about the optional viewfinder is that with the viewfinder attached the camera does not easily fit in a pocket. But, attaching and detaching the viewfinder takes less than 5 seconds. Just snap it in and snap it out.
I have a Sony HVLF20AM flash that mounts on the camera using the Sony ADPMAA Shoe Adaptor. The adapter is $25. The newer Sony HVLF20m flash works without an adapter.
This flash with the the adapter works on both my RX100MII and my NEX-6. On the NEX-6 the HVLF20AM flash will remotely trigger my Sony HVL-F43AM flash giving me off camera flash capability. I assume this will also work on the RX100MII but I have not tried it.

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Oct 21, 2013 16:05:03   #
Davethehiker
 
StephenVL wrote:
The first thing to understand about the optional viewfinder is that with the viewfinder attached the camera does not easily fit in a pocket. But, attaching and detaching the viewfinder takes less than 5 seconds. Just snap it in and snap it out.
I have a Sony HVLF20AM flash that mounts on the camera using the Sony ADPMAA Shoe Adaptor. The adapter is $25. The newer Sony HVLF20m flash works without an adapter.
This flash with the the adapter works on both my RX100MII and my NEX-6. On the NEX-6 the HVLF20AM flash will remotely trigger my Sony HVL-F43AM flash giving me off camera flash capability. I assume this will also work on the RX100MII but I have not tried it.
The first thing to understand about the optional v... (show quote)


My unnamed friend assumed the same thing, about remote triggering but discovered it did not work. He attempted all kinds of tricks but could not get the off camera flash(s) to work. No luck! The only way he could get off camera flashes to work with that camera was to mount radio remote controller in that hot shoe and cover the built in flash up with an opaque cloth so he could take control of the radio controlled flashes manually. He covers this in his book.

This is not the sort of thing one does with a camera made to fit in your pocket! If I'm going to start using multiple remote flashes, it's time for big cameras.

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Oct 21, 2013 18:20:47   #
Peekayoh
 
Quite so, a compact camera serves a specific function, no need for it to replicate DSLR functionality.
Same with the a7R, it's just a different tool which I see as additional to my a99 not an alternative.

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Oct 21, 2013 19:41:51   #
Davethehiker
 
Peekayoh wrote:
Quite so, a compact camera serves a specific function, no need for it to replicate DSLR functionality.
Same with the a7R, it's just a different tool which I see as additional to my a99 not an alternative.


Peter, Obviously you are familiar with the Sony RX-100. Do you own one?

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Oct 21, 2013 22:42:28   #
StephenVL
 
Davethehiker wrote:
My unnamed friend assumed the same thing, about remote triggering but discovered it did not work. He attempted all kinds of tricks but could not get the off camera flash(s) to work. No luck! The only way he could get off camera flashes to work with that camera was to mount radio remote controller in that hot shoe and cover the built in flash up with an opaque cloth so he could take control of the radio controlled flashes manually. He covers this in his book.

This is not the sort of thing one does with a camera made to fit in your pocket! If I'm going to start using multiple remote flashes, it's time for big cameras.
My unnamed friend assumed the same thing, about re... (show quote)


Well, I confirmed it. I put my HVL-F20AM flash on my NEX-6 and set the flash mode on the camera to "WL" wireless flash mode and the HVL-20AM triggers the remote HVL-42AM flash. Then I attempted to repeat that setup on RX100-MII. But the menu on the RX100 does not have a "WL" option. In flash mode auto the HVL-20AM works fine but does not trigger the HVL-42AM.
Maybe there will be a firmware update down the road that adds this option.

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Oct 21, 2013 23:17:03   #
Davethehiker
 
StephenVL wrote:
Well, I confirmed it. I put my HVL-F20AM flash on my NEX-6 and set the flash mode on the camera to "WL" wireless flash mode and the HVL-20AM triggers the remote HVL-42AM flash. Then I attempted to repeat that setup on RX100-MII. But the menu on the RX100 does not have a "WL" option. In flash mode auto the HVL-20AM works fine but does not trigger the HVL-42AM.
Maybe there will be a firmware update down the road that adds this option.


Yes, if a firmware update could add that feature it would be cool. If we are going to dream, why not have the pop-up flash control the entire family of Sony remote flashes?

Maybe this will be on the MKIII ? I was half expecting this to be built in.

It's just starting to dawn on me how tiny this camera is! I found the dimensions on the Internet. :

Dimensions: 4.0 x 2.3 x 1.5 in.
(102 x 58 x 38 mm)

It's roughly the same size as my Ricoh.

I have a leatherette case, that has loop in the back of it that my pants belt slips through, keeping it on my hip. It's 5 X 3.5 X 2.25 in.

Maybe I'll be able to squeeze the RX100-MII into that case, even with the viewfinder attached? That's how I have been carrying my Ricoh.

I just found the dimensions of the EVF:
1.03 x 1.21 x 1.59" / 26.2 x 30.75 x 40.4 mm

I think it will fit in my belt case WITH the viewfinder attached!

I see that the viewfinder provides -4 dioper correction. That covers my nearsightedness.

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Oct 22, 2013 05:05:26   #
Peekayoh
 
Davethehiker wrote:
Peter, Obviously you are familiar with the Sony RX-100. Do you own one?
No but I found it quite interesting when it surfaced, it's remarkably tiny for a compact with a 1" sensor and the image quality is pretty good. In the end though, I find the NEX-7 small enough to suit my needs and it has the added bonus of the full APS-C Sensor and goes well with my other tools.

Regarding flash, it's no real surprise that it doesn't talk to those of the DSLR. The Compact Division and the DSLR division are run separately and there seems to be little cross talk.

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Oct 22, 2013 10:33:03   #
Davethehiker
 
Peekayoh wrote:
No but I found it quite interesting when it surfaced, it's remarkably tiny for a compact with a 1" sensor and the image quality is pretty good. In the end though, I find the NEX-7 small enough to suit my needs and it has the added bonus of the full APS-C Sensor and goes well with my other tools.

Regarding flash, it's no real surprise that it doesn't talk to those of the DSLR. The Compact Division and the DSLR division are run separately and there seems to be little cross talk.


From the book I'm reading about the MK2, I have learned that it's called a "1" type sensor" but that is a misnomer. All camera manufactures use this nomenclature when discussing sensor size, but in fact the sensor is actually 13.2mm x 8.8 mm or 0.52" x 0.35".

Yes, it seems it would give Sony a competitive advantage if their compact division and DSLR division worked more closely together. It seems silly for the flash on the "Sony" RX100 not to be able to communicate with the the other Sony flashes. I don't think this could be fixed in SW. It would require that the camera have another sensor to pick up the digital signal coming from the remote flash. $$$$$ Perhaps they could come out with a small attachable accessory flash that could "play will with others" and could include the ability to communicate with the big boy DSLR flashes.

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Oct 22, 2013 11:02:28   #
Peekayoh
 
Dave, It's an anachronism referring back to video camera tube measurements and quite inappropriate for digital Sensors.
If you multiply the diagonal by a factor of 1.5 you will arrive at 1" as near as dammit.

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Oct 22, 2013 11:15:02   #
StephenVL
 
Peekayoh wrote:
Dave, It's an anachronism referring back to video camera tube measurements and quite inappropriate for digital Sensors.
If you multiply the diagonal by a factor of 1.5 you will arrive at 1" as near as dammit.


Peekayoh is correct. After I bought my RX100MII I was going over the specs and was confused when I saw the actual dimensions of the sensor. I said to myself "That is not 1". But when I did further research I found the same thing that they have this confusing system that is based on round crt measurements.
The good news is that all the manufactures use this system not just Sony. So when comparing cameras you are comparing apples to apples.
The 1" sensor in the RX100MII is considerably bigger that the sensor in almost all compact cameras, but is smaller than the APS-C sensor in most DSLR's. It is close in size to the sensor in the Nikon 1 mirror-less camera.
For a full explanation on sensor size see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

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Oct 22, 2013 15:48:39   #
Davethehiker
 
I guess it's small when compared to a full frame but big when compared most tiny cameras of that size.

I have been tracking the UPS number as it travels to my house. It's currently at a UPS distribution center about 30 miles from my house. It says I'll get it tomorrow.

BTW, My wife just upgraded her iPhone. That thing has a remarkably effective camera built into it. I has HDR, multiple exposure noise reduction, etc. Perhaps that camera and my soon to arrive DX100 will be all the camera power we will need for our upcoming trip to the UK.

I have attached another photo I took on my farewell walk with my Ricoh. My wife loves this photo and thinks I should print this and hang it in the house.



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Oct 22, 2013 19:19:50   #
Davethehiker
 
I don't know if this will work. I going to try to upload a short video clip my wife took with her iPhone.

This is supposed to be a Christmas decoration. We bought it and assembled it today. We are already having fun with it.
movie
Attached file:
(Download)

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