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Need Help with Exposure on an ALL manual camera!!!
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Apr 18, 2013 01:41:02   #
doogie Loc: Washington
 
Ty very much for the book suggestions. As soon as the BAH for next month arrives I'll pick them up. I believe someone has mentioned that Ansel Adams is considered the Father of the Zone system. And after taking a good look at some of his work in B/W I can believe he was a master of such.

As for the 4x5 Camera, yes I can borrow anything from the cage from a 35mm all the way up to Large format. I will try my hand at Medium and large format after I get this BDE/ Sunny 16 thing down. I actually am comming to an understanding over F~stops and shutter speed. And yes it is taking a bit longer these days. I am finding that my routes of learning are vastly different than they were years ago. Hard to explain.

Ty again for those two suggestions.

As for the roll of film I finished off today (HP5 400). I experimented with exposure compensation, the BDE, metering the mud, AND an attempt to keep track of it all in a log book. I will develop it in the morning, and Hopefully have a successfully printed Contact sheet (After several test strips) available to me by tomorrow afternoon. I've got two rolls of film that I have to make a contact sheet for. Printing for the Magic number of Edge black is what the Dark room is calling it. (I Love the Dark room!!!!!!!!!!!)



Zero_Equals_Infinity wrote:
Some will say it is dated, but I say this is the classic book on "The Camera" see http://www.amazon.com/Camera-Ansel-Adams-Photography-Book/dp/0821221841

Then pick up "The Negative" see http://www.amazon.com/Negative-Ansel-Adams-Photography-Book/dp/0821221868

And lastly, "The Print" see http://www.amazon.com/Print-Ansel-Adams-Photography-Book/dp/0821221876


If you are heading toward film and traditional printing, this set of books is the ultimate.

(Ask your instructor about them, and see if you can acquire or borrow a 4" x 5" view camera.)

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/
Some will say it is dated, but I say this is the c... (show quote)

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Apr 18, 2013 01:49:43   #
doogie Loc: Washington
 
Hmm. Not quite. My complaint is that my light meter and I do not fully understand each other. I actually have found myself arguing with the light meter out loud. LOL.

My Instructor is actually fairly quirky. And fun to listen to. I wish I could download his 40 plus years of knowledge into my brain instantaneously. His motto seems to be "If you are not shooting something you are doing nothing and nothing is not good"

I think the reason I ask so many questions is that I am doing my best to reason the process out. And if something doesn't make sense... Well I tend to ask a million questions.- and often times ask the same question more than once about a different facet of the previous question.

And Yes I am enjoying this course. Might take me a little bit, but eventually all the pieces will click into place and then (As always) the Eureka moment will happen. Searching for the truth behind the spirit of a matter is often the most difficult of tasks that can be asked of anyone. Just my opinion.
Mogul wrote:
Sorry, but I read that as a complaint about the instructor. What say you, Doogie?

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Apr 18, 2013 02:22:52   #
doogie Loc: Washington
 
The ISO is the very 1st thing I check before and after putting the film in. That's my stop and think moment. Regardless of which ISO I have in the camera, I always make sure to do a double check before and after I load the film. I am experimenting with the bracketing thing.

This is how I am doing it. I leave the Sh.Sp alone, and move the F~stop up one then down one below the original F~stop.

Hope that answers that part.

wilsondl2 wrote:
It looksto me that if all negatives were thin that you are doing the metering right but your meter is one or two stops off. I would take a roll of film and meter and then bracket three shots the one the meter reads - the next slower stop and then one more at the next slower stop. You can then adjust the meter by setting the asa on the camera to match your bwest negative. For example if if you are shooting 400 film set the asa on your camera at 200 and if you want to go down another stop set it at 100. Just a thought do you have your camera set at 400 asa and are you using asa 100 film. That just may be your problem. - Dave
It looksto me that if all negatives were thin that... (show quote)

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Apr 18, 2013 05:50:47   #
Zero_Equals_Infinity Loc: Canada
 
JudyTee23 wrote:
Mogul- I am sorry for this delayed response, but I work long days, Art classes, 9AM-4PM, Mon. through Fri., Photography class, 7-10 PM, Mon. through Fri. I usually spend an additional hour or more with individual students to help them with any difficulties. So, I do not get back to quarters until well after 11PM.

Recognizing that this is a Photography Forum and not an Education Forum, I will try to be brief.

The overall tenor of the OP's post indicates to me, at least, that he does not enjoy a good relationship with his instructor. In the recent past, he has asked several questions which could have readily been answered by any decent instructor.

Like you, I tend to doubt that a full-fledged, tenured, "professor" would be teaching a photography class. It matters not who teaches a class, but the quality of the instruction is paramount.

Three years ago, when my college was trying to develop a worthwhile class in photographic basics, I sat in on classes at other institutions. I was often appalled at the poor quality of instruction being offered. Clearly, it was difficult to find instructors who knew the subject matter and also had the necessary communication skills to impart their knowledge to others. That may be part of the problem our OP is encountering.

I have no problem with the OP studying how to use film, as long as the subject matter was preceded by a good grounding in basic optics and other fundamentals of photography. Too many courses do not provide a sufficient foundation. Also, too many courses tend to emphasize "digital" rather than "photography."

My short, seven-year career at a small, conservative, basically liberal arts college, does not qualify me to engage in a detailed dissertation regarding the status of many of our educational institutions. I understand most of your concerns and share some of your observations. I would be happy to engage you in such a discussion via PM if you so desire, taking into account my heavy work schedule.

I am barred by college policy from mentioning the name of the institution on the Web, so please do not ask.

Have a nice day.
Mogul- I am sorry for this delayed response, but I... (show quote)


What an odd restriction on academic freedom -- not being able to mention the institution you work for on the web.

A tenured professor may very well teach photography. While the art of photography has often been disparaged by those who interpret the instrument as the "creator" of a facsimile, and without regard to the role of the photographer in composing, and then realising an authentic and unique expression; it has through many growing pains become accepted as a legitimate and powerful medium for the expression of the creative impulse--revealing the inspiration of a gifted artist. The media is the means of expression, not the content, (and certainly not the whole content), of expression.

And so, there are professors who teach photography, and a number of them break the boundaries of the known, pushing deeper into the subject than others had previously.

Like at any institution of higher learning there will be a range of knowledge and a range of abilities when it comes to teaching. Some professors are greater researchers, but not so great on teaching undergrads, while others are phenomenal teachers, but do not write the defining papers in their disciplines. Occasionally both exist in one person, and then the ability to inspire students to go beyond their current selves is fed with cutting edge state of the art knowledge. So where does one find these great professors? Like everything else in our competitive world, the best are drawn to the institutions which offer them the most resources to expand and explore. Hence, it is not at the regional college level where such people are likely to be found.

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Apr 18, 2013 08:11:35   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
WAL wrote:
Buy a cheap SLR and set it to auto. You'll be much happier. There is no reason for you to learn how to develop 35 mm film.
Find another instructor.


Non sense there is nothing wrong with film. I still shoot film; lots of folks on this site do also. Film still has a quality that digital can't produce in my opinion. I think you need to adjust your feelings on this matter. What do others say on this?

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Apr 18, 2013 08:17:49   #
altheman Loc: Christchurch, New Zealand
 
If all your negs are thin then I would be seriously looking to you had processed them correctly.
If you are sure that the ISO is set correctly and that the meter is working correctly and you have set the shutter speed and f-stop correctly then its the processing. All this crap about the zone system etc will just confuse you. You need to become totally familiar with the Law of Reciprocity in regards to exposure.
To check if your processing is correct have a look at the printed numbers on the edge of the negs if they look correctly exposed then your processing is correct assuming you are exposing and processing the film as per the manufacturer's standard instructions and are not pushing or pulling the film speed.
You can tell if a film has on the whole been correctly exposed because it will look that way. this doesn't mean that you have the exposure spot on for your subject matter and that where experience comes in. Depending on the age of your camera exposing from a grey card could mean that you are half a stop underexposed.
And before anyone jumps down my throat about this I suggest you google it.

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Apr 18, 2013 08:27:39   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
Very good answer well put!



altheman wrote:
If all your negs are thin then I would be seriously looking to you had processed them correctly.
If you are sure that the ISO is set correctly and that the meter is working correctly and you have set the shutter speed and f-stop correctly then its the processing. All this crap about the zone system etc will just confuse you. You need to become totally familiar with the Law of Reciprocity in regards to exposure.
To check if your processing is correct have a look at the printed numbers on the edge of the negs if they look correctly exposed then your processing is correct assuming you are exposing and processing the film as per the manufacturer's standard instructions and are not pushing or pulling the film speed.
You can tell if a film has on the whole been correctly exposed because it will look that way. this doesn't mean that you have the exposure spot on for your subject matter and that where experience comes in. Depending on the age of your camera exposing from a grey card could mean that you are half a stop underexposed.
And before anyone jumps down my throat about this I suggest you google it.
If all your negs are thin then I would be seriousl... (show quote)

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Apr 18, 2013 12:21:27   #
rebride
 
The New Zone System Manual
Peter Lorenz, Richard Zakia, Minor White
Actually not so new (though surely revised), but head and shoulders above Ansel's books.
Highly inspirational, too.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Zone-System-Manual/dp/B000Z6CI5O

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