doogie Loc: Washington

Hi All. Photography Student here.

My Camera is a Pentax K1000. The only meter I have available (That makes sense) is the one inside the camera. The professor keeps saying "Your light meter will lie to you". Developed my first three rolls of film and ALL of them are thin. We are working with B/W film.

So I went out and reshot the assignment. Now I'm trying to figure out how NOT to make thin negatives. I metered the ground in front of me then i shot the building and (as suggested) did not change the meter settings.

So my question is this. Using 400 speed film (B/W) and using BDE (Sunny 16) to meter. What are some sure fire ways to make sure my negatives don't end up thin again?

This is my understanding of the S-16 rule. Need HELP!!!

Sunny: F~16 and ISO equiv. Pentax is 1/250
Slightly Cloudy : F~11
Slightly Overcast: F~8
Over Cast: F~5.6

Having problems with the speed part.

Advice is welcome!!!!

V/r,
Doogie

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

ISO is determined by FILM, not the camera. Sounds like you are confusing ISO with flash synch to me. Sunny 16 Rule:
Sunny skies=F16 and the shutter speed equaling your films ISO, i.e. ISO 100 will shoot at 1/100sec shutter speed.
ISO 400 means F16 and 1/400th sec shutter.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I don't know if you have the manual for your camera, but there are some useful hints in it concerning getting good exposure with this camera. If you don't have the manual, you can download it free here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax.htm
(Check out page 20.)

Kuzano

Sunny 16 is an alternative to metering. That said, I hope nobody tried to convince you it was better or simple. You do have to understand that the meter does lie to you until you understand more about how it works.

Sunny 16 says on a bright day, set the camera to f16 on the aperture and set the shutter speed to a reciprocal of the the film speed.

If the film speed is 100 (don't confuse this with whether the film speed is stated in ASA or ISO.. they are the same), then the shutter speed should be the closest you can get to 100.

Hence... sunny day, film speed 100, aperture f16, shutter set to 1/125th. ... proper exposure for an average scene. You are shooting for the light falling on the scene.

Hence...change this.. sunny day, film speed 400, aperture f16, shutter set to the closest number to 400, ie 1/500th.

In your example, you set the reciprocal for 400 to 1/250th. I don't know what you mean by thin negative, but I would not have used 1/250th as a reciprocal for the speed of 400. Also consider that the adjustment for sunny day IS affected by the differences in the nature of the light for early morning sunny, high noon sunny or late day sunny. It's more a matter of using "sunny 16" until you develop your own interpretation of how the camera/film combination works for you.

One of the things that film photographers used to do was work with one camera and only one emulsion of the same brand of film until they knew it's response to the light.

and so forth.

But you do have to spend a lot of time understanding other variables, and how the meter works. It does not do what you think it does. Modern computer driven camera's are using incredible programming to try and simplify how meters work, but in the final analysis, I always have this thought in my mind.

No matter what I interpret in my mind, and no matter how much computerization is built into my camera, you still only get one shutter speed, one aperture and one ISO/ASA with each click of the shutter. That's why we used to bracket exposures... as measured, then one over, then one under and gamble on one being correct.

Film does pin you down on the film speed because once that film is loaded you only get to shoot that film's speed until the roll is finished. So you do get to stay with only two variables to each image.

I am going to link you here to a page that is very pointed about all the variables, and discussion about "how the meter lies".

The K1000 was the chosen king of student camera's in its day. It's a great manual camera, and it does have a meter that does not use programming to set any of the settings. It simply suggests a starting combination of aperture and shutter speed, and as you change either one of the aperture or shutter speed, it tells you how much you are varying from it's suggestion. However you are in control. You learn how the settings you choose can run up and down the scale of aperture/shutter speed combinations.

This link is a little intimidating, but it's loaded with a ton of usable understanding of manual control, and changes in scene and lighting. Have fun:

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

Thin negatives are the result of undererexposed or underdevelopment. If you are tray developing, you can test a roll of film with constant uniform exposures by immersing the roll in the developer tray and then pulling 1½ inches of film out after each 15-30 seconds of development (depending on total development time)*; stop and fix as normal. Understand than many film photographers will underexpose film intentionally and adjust in development. Ansel Adams did so; I learned the trick from his early essays and did so myself in a series on barns and fog.

The K1000 can take several batteries, but the CdS meter requires a constant voltage to operate properly. Use an SR44 battery; do not use an LR44 (voltage fall-off is inconsistent in an alkaline battery). Borrow a good light meter and compare readings. Calibrate your light meter by adjusting the ISO (ASA) setting. Better still buy a light meter that will give you reflected and incident readings and a spot meter; you might actually find a silicone meter (the best) that will fit the flash shoe. Use UHH search to find any of the numerous threads about light meters. The K1000 meters the entire frame (meter averaging) and will not help you for details unless you can hold the lens close enough to fill the frame with the detail.

My last thought concerns the manual; if you don't have one, download it here:

http://www.pentax-manuals.com/markroberts/k1000_man.pdf

* One thing I forgot to add: as you pull film from the developer, it will continue to develop; feed the extracted film into the stop bath ASAP (feed over edge tray to tray) and add about ½ the interim time to the developer time for each section pulled. Oh, and to mark the sections, use a paper punch.

rebride

Expose for the shadows, develop for highlights.
Use a gray card for exposure.
Make sure you keep temperature/dilution/agitation constant to remove variables in development. You will probably learn to vary time according to contrast range of subject. Make sure you have a good thermometer and use temperature correct water bath.
Are you allowed to bracket exposures?

BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA

Excellent ideas, but difficult unless you keep a detailed log of what you do. If you make a mistake, log it in red ink; log super-achievements in blue. Maybe you can write a book someday; maybe not. But you'll never recording those dilutions, temperature and times in your log. Also, keep another part of the log for meter readings, environmental conditions and exposure data.

UPDATE: Use Photo Flo!

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

rebride

Ah, the opening salvo in learning film. It's actually quite fun. A calibration of the film, the meter, development etc.

-If using the camera meter, set to ASA 200 or even 100. Actual working ISO is often different than the ISO of the film.
-Bracket some of your shots. From 2 under to 2 over for now. Will show a lot about how it all is working together. Especially the meter.
-Follow development directions carefully.

JR1 Loc: Tavistock, Devon, UK

Read this

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/guide-to-using-a-hand-held-light-meter-4748

photocat Loc: Atlanta, Ga

Why not discuss this with your insturctor? Have your camera in hand so you can sit down and walk through how to use the meter and he can better explain how to use the meter and how to test the meter to determine what has to be done to make a "correct" exposure.

Folks are giving you good suggestions, but in person, one on one may be more productive.

ole sarg Loc: south florida

great discussion. I forgot just what a pain film was!

ggttc Loc: TN

The interesting thing here is that ALL the images were thin.

I am assuming for your assignment you would be shooting different subject matter under different lighting conditions...havent done any darkroom work in a long time...but it sounds like something is wrong in the tray work...

The suggestions above are all excellent...and I would look at all of them...and start at the top and work your way down the list.

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

It looksto me that if all negatives were thin that you are doing the metering right but your meter is one or two stops off. I would take a roll of film and meter and then bracket three shots the one the meter reads - the next slower stop and then one more at the next slower stop. You can then adjust the meter by setting the asa on the camera to match your bwest negative. For example if if you are shooting 400 film set the asa on your camera at 200 and if you want to go down another stop set it at 100. Just a thought do you have your camera set at 400 asa and are you using asa 100 film. That just may be your problem. - Dave

ljmeis76 Loc: Bedford, MA(Delray, FL)

I shot B&W for years and did lots of testing, trying to use the zone system.
You camera(meter and shutter speed). ISO and developer (brand, dilution, and time) form a system, any part of which can affect the density of the negatives. You will have to test each component of the system to get good negatives. The hardest psychological hurdle I had to get over was shooting at a much lower ISO setting than the nominal speed which may be way off depending on the other factors. Your instructor can probably outline a testing procedure for you. Try shooting 3 identical short rolls(are you reloading bulk film?) of exposures at a full range off ISO's and develop themfor a spread of time in the developer. This should get you fairly close to the correct factors.
Good luck.