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Conservatives, Do You Believe This ?
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Apr 9, 2013 09:09:11   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
And for those whose health is so bad they cannot work ? Put them on an iceberg and shove the iceberg out to sea ?


bull drink water wrote:
if there is a job for everyone then we don't need entitlements. to have anything over 1% unemployment is unthinkable. why are we not kicking the buts of those not creating the new jobs, and those shipping them overseas? then we can adopt a "no work", "no eat" policy.

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Apr 9, 2013 09:17:01   #
Frank T Loc: New York, NY
 
Is it an entitlement to make sure that people don't starve. Is it an entitlement to make sure that children have healthcare? Is it an entitlement to assure that everyone has a roof over their heads?
If these things are entitlements, then yes I believe we should keep them.
The teachings of Jesus told us that we should take care of the poor, the sick and the needy. When did that "go out of style".

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Apr 9, 2013 09:33:23   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
It is an interesting observation that many of the people who tout their religion most strongly don't want to practice their religion except on Sundays, and only if that means going to church and listening to a sermon. I don't understand the disconnect in this.



Frank T wrote:
Is it an entitlement to make sure that people don't starve. Is it an entitlement to make sure that children have healthcare? Is it an entitlement to assure that everyone has a roof over their heads?
If these things are entitlements, then yes I believe we should keep them.
The teachings of Jesus told us that we should take care of the poor, the sick and the needy. When did that "go out of style".

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Apr 9, 2013 09:35:07   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
Pepper, where do we draw the line ? To whom would you give entitlements, and to whom would you deny them.


Pepper wrote:
I'm a conservative and I do believe in entitlements but I think we've overdone them. We've become a country of extremes, all or nothing. Some things the centrists have right.

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Apr 9, 2013 09:38:05   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
Shack2, several questions:

Are their any modifications to the Constitution that you accept ? How struct a Constitutionalist are you.

Are you aware that the very rich give a considerably smaller percentage of their income to charity than the average person ? Having more disposable money doesn't usually cause one to give more to charity.


Shack2 wrote:
I am a Constitutionalist. I do not believe in "Entitlements". They take away incentives to work and stand on one's own two feet. I am 71. There were many a times I headed off to school with only a piece of bread broken into a bowl of milk for breakfast and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch. I had a mom who told me I could do anything I wanted but I would have to work for it. Started baby sitting in the 8th grade and as soon as I turned 16 worked as many hours as I could to help supplement my parents income. It is what many of us did in those days. Didn't hurt us a bit and taught us responsibility.

I wanted to be a stewardess but my student counselor told me I would never make it as I was not college bound. I was told to take secretarial courses. Hated it. Had to go to summer school for typing and shorthand. Upon graduating I did go into office work but I could not stand being cooped up inside 4 walls.

Took me 7 years but in 1967, I earned my wings. Stayed with it for 37 years and loved every minute of it. I had a mom and friends who were great encouragers and never let me give up my dream.

Yes, there are times when some need help. If the government would get out of our pocket book, we would have more money to give to our churches, Salvation Army, etc. But they won't because as I learned early on in life, "the more money the Government has of yours, the more they can control you". That was 50 years ago and it is sadly coming to fruition.
I am a Constitutionalist. I do not believe in &quo... (show quote)

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Apr 9, 2013 09:40:43   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
I think many of the loopholes consist of situations in which taxes are not imposed (foreign earnings, perhaps ?) rather than deductions actually taken.


Samuraiz wrote:
Sometimes worlds talk on a life of their own. There are those that call SS and Medicare entitlements although many if not most contributed more than 7% with an employer match of 7% every year. I would think this is an investment with an agreed upon return.

Also, what was once called legitimate tax deductions are now renamed TAX LOOP HOLES.

Words can be very powerful my friends.

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Apr 9, 2013 09:44:22   #
Ka2azman Loc: Tucson, Az
 
Frank T wrote:
Is it an entitlement to make sure that people don't starve. Is it an entitlement to make sure that children have healthcare? Is it an entitlement to assure that everyone has a roof over their heads?
If these things are entitlements, then yes I believe we should keep them.
The teachings of Jesus told us that we should take care of the poor, the sick and the needy. When did that "go out of style".




Its one thing to help to keep a roof over head, food on the table, and medical care; its another to make a life of it and demand it!

"Bitch, get me some cigarettes and beer while you're out. I'm almost out! Get them your self - Can't gotta meet my bro and cop some dope, cause i'm almost out of everything too! We don't get enough money to support all these things! Damn government! When will they give us some real money so we can live like we want!

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Apr 9, 2013 09:47:01   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
I agree, these are two different situations. But what are you basing your vision of the second situation on ? Have you lived that life ? Do you know people who live or have lived that life ? Or have you just been listening to stereotypes and watching TV ? I don't know. I cannot tell. I know a lot of people on welfare an to a one that don't fit into your second category.


Ka2azman wrote:
Its one thing to help to keep a roof over head, food on the table, and medical care; its another to make a life of it and demand it!

"Bitch, get me some cigarettes and beer while you're out. I'm almost out! Get them your self - Can't gotta meet my bro and cop some dope, cause i'm almost out of everything too! We don't get enough money to support all these things! Damn government! When will they give us some real money so we can live like we want!

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Apr 9, 2013 10:27:49   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Richard94611 wrote:
And for those whose health is so bad they cannot work ? Put them on an iceberg and shove the iceberg out to sea ?



There are still icebergs somewhere?

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Apr 9, 2013 10:29:11   #
newdigshtrbg Loc: Carney, Maryland
 
Well in my experiences, real life mind you, Baltimore tears down 40 year old gov assisted high rise, trashed and not suitible for living. Created that way by the inhabitants. Local news outside interviewing residents, one lady says "this is terible, I have lived hear for 40 years". Really 40 years and could not find a job ? Breeding generations of welfare children, who will in turn breed the same ? Second senario, and I know u have heard this before but I have seen it. Grocery store, extreemly overweight person in from of me at check out, cart containing steaks, crablegs , bags of junk food, $320 bill, pays with WIC card, my cart, chicken, and hamburger, vegtables, $160. Yes people do at one time or another need assistance, however in the days Gov assistance was created, most people were ashamed to get a handout, and would do anything before going down that road, as people were ashamed of out of wed pregnancy, but once it was excepted than that was the downfall. Tell me where does it end, we now give cell phones, payed for by that little fed tax on every cellphone bill, I know there was an amendment in the Maryland bill to raise gasoline taxes, to suppliment lower income free gasoline. Whats next cars, oh thats right we already do that also. So bottom line is every time the Gov gives something away it has to come from us, as we fall further and further behind in our availible cash flow, due to more taxes the middle class dwindles. My solution, a national sales tax, no deductions, simple, you buy a lexus, you pay higher taxes that one who buys a civic, Every one pays, drug dealer who wants a Hummer, Donalad trump who wants a new casino all is fair. The IRS will all but dissapear, savings there. The Gov will not do these because they have controll in fear over all of us with the IRS. There said it, thats for letting me vent, now I need to go back to my rubber room.

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Apr 9, 2013 10:29:28   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Frank T wrote:
Is it an entitlement to make sure that people don't starve. Is it an entitlement to make sure that children have healthcare? Is it an entitlement to assure that everyone has a roof over their heads?
If these things are entitlements, then yes I believe we should keep them.
The teachings of Jesus told us that we should take care of the poor, the sick and the needy. When did that "go out of style".

...................................................


Interesting point of view: those who insist that we are a Christian nation are most adamantly opposed to helping any poor individual who cannot make ends meet. On the other hand, there is barely a whimper from them about the trillions of dollars of corporate entitlement.

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Apr 9, 2013 10:30:55   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Richard94611 wrote:
Pepper, where do we draw the line ? To whom would you give entitlements, and to whom would you deny them.

..................................

The right has not changed since Herbert Hoover, who refused to endorse any personal relief programs on the premise that when the government gives someone anything, it takes their heart and soul. Hoover, thus compassionately allowed people to go hungry and homeless, but in his consummate cruelty, he took the hearts and souls of corporations by giving them of millions of dollars via the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.

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Apr 9, 2013 10:38:03   #
newdigshtrbg Loc: Carney, Maryland
 
Who out here on the right, do you think believes corporations should have their hard earned income , no sir you confuse us with politicians whom have their hands in the cookie jar.

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Apr 9, 2013 10:49:02   #
Jerry B Loc: Dyckesville, Wisconsin
 
I agree. We put our money in and our employer put money in for us instead of paying it directly to us. Now we are being accused of not being entitled to get our money back. It is our money - we want it back! Those in congress should keep their hands off of it!

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Apr 9, 2013 11:03:13   #
Otis
 
Entitlements are like respect, you earn them you are not born to them nor are they a right. If society would take care their duties to society and to their fellow humans their rights would take care of themselves
Richard94611 wrote:
In a recent issue of The New Yorker (April 8th, 2013) on page 23 there is a discussion of the term "entitlement" and its meanings. It details views of two "prominent and conservative academics, Robert Nisbet and Robert Nozick."

The article states: "To oversimplify: according to Nozick, the only things person is legitimately entitled to are things he creates by 'mixing' his own labor with something that no one else possesses, such as unclaimed land or resources, and things thus created which the person acquires through exchange or as gifts. But it is unjust for things -- things like public schools and pensions -- to be acquired through redistributive taxation, which is morally 'on a pair with forced labor.' In other words, what no one is entitled to is, precisely 'entitlements.' "

What do you think, conservative folks ? Do you believe this ?
In a recent issue of The New Yorker (April 8th, 20... (show quote)

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