sourdough58 Loc: Maine

If you are the one in fount of the first shot it really dont matter how many rounds a gun has,
A 12 Ga. shell with # 4 buckshot can have 27 pellets at .24 in diameter that leave the barrel at the same time if you have 7 shells in your shotgun that is: 7 X 27 = 189 pellets by pulling the trigger 7 times compared to squeezing the trigger 189 times including a Mag change with the AK-47 (the 100 rd mag is also attached to the barrel not that easy to change and is prone to jamming) to fire 189 rds. For my money in a in-home defense I want the shotgun. My closest neighbors is 300 yds + I know my neighbors they are friends and in a pinch I can depend on them to watch my back and I will watch theirs , get to know your neighbors and then out of respect they will try not to upset you and if you like them maybe you can be a little more tolerant of the party .... if you choose not to go.

Photogdog Loc: New Kensington, PA

I have to admit up front that I own a lot of guns. Having said that, I'm selling a bunch of them off. I don't get out the range as much as I used to & my sons are at an age where they're exploring other interests (girls). I'll still keep my favorites, like the ones I worked on (you should see some of the wood work).

However, over the years having dealt with some of the local dealers, I've heard some AMAZING stories regarding the instant background check system.

A few months after the law went into effect, I went to local dealer where I had a S&W revolver on layaway for several months. I had been making small payments on it & was ready to pick it up. The dealer called the number and punched in my driver's license number. After a minute or two he looks at me a says "They're transferring me to an operator. I've never had that happen before.". I'm thinking great, of course this happens to me. After a minute or so, he's talking to a live person. He says "No, this guys white. No, his hair is gray. No, he's 6'4". No, his eyes are green.". They give him the BATFE number to put on the 4473 form and he hangs up. He looks at me and says "Somebody out there with your name did something really f***ing BAD! The name is one thing, but how did the "system" screw up the driver's license number?

There's a local store in Pittsburgh that's supplied guns, ammunition, holsters, etc for the Pittsburgh Police Dept. for years. One day, after the NICS was passed, a local cop came in to buy a backup piece. When they ran his name through the system, he was denied. It turned out he had just gone through an ugly divorce and his ex-wife filed a phony abuse charge against him in order to up the alimony. Like the dealer said, here's a guy in uniform with a squad car parked out front whose job requires him to be armed and they're not allowed to sell him a gun!

And with all these "safeguards" in place, the gangbangers are running around with full auto MAC-10s, mini-UZIs and AK-47s.

Yeah, pass more laws. Let's forget about prosecuting the offenders.

The liberals in this country wail & nash their teeth over the death penalty. The common complaint is that it isn't a real deterent against violent crime. The one fact that they seem to ignore is that the vast majority of violent crime commited in this country is at the hands of repeat offenders who get out on parole so they can take up where they left off.

Put the needle in the arm, end the problem and stop taking taxpayer money to house, clothe & feed these animals so they can watch TV, work out in the gym & sit in prison libraries becoming jailhouse lawers who file appeals that go on for deades.

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

I think many of you got carried away from the subject, which was the background checks.
Any law is only good if it is diligently enforced. Otherwise it's not even worth a plugged nickle. We already have requirements of registration and background checks on the books. They are not enforced, because the government is too busy elsewhere, such as providing so-called assault weapons to cartels. (Remember the "fast and furious" debackle?). I was in sporting goods business for many years and had firearms license and was required to keep records of the sales. Was also required to turn in the records to ATF if went out of business. All those years no one checked my records as they were supposed to do periodicly. Almost 20 years after I left the business I received a call from ATF wanting to know what happened to the records. I told them that I had sent them in as required. This is the government that wants to enact further laws on the subject without enforcing the already enacted ones.
A background check would not have prevented the last mass shooting, as the mother of the shooter was clean and would have passed it. All these mass shootings were committed by mentally disturbed individuals. If the government spent it's energy on providing a better care for the mentally ill rather than inconveniencing the law obiding public, it would be much more beneficial. Let's face it, at one time there were many state hospitals everywhere doing just that. Today you can't find any. To me, any new law on this subject would be like the teats on a boar hog...Worthless.

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

And with all these "safeguards" in place, the gangbangers are running around with full auto MAC-10s, mini-UZIs and AK-47s.

Yeah, pass more laws. Let's forget about prosecuting the offenders.

The liberals in this country wail & nash their teeth over the death penalty. The common complaint is that it isn't a real deterent against violent crime. The one fact that they seem to ignore is that the vast majority of violent crime commited in this country is at the hands of repeat offenders who get out on parole so they can take up where they left off. (Quote...)

Perfect example of why we need bg checks.

Simple fact is, we can't have people killing school kids and theater patrons in mass killings. We must do something.

Every law passed reduces our liberty some, but some are worth it.

Drunk driving laws, speed limits, seat belt laws, all reduce our liberty.

We have freedom of speech, but it is illegal to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater just to see everybody panic.

We've got to keep crazies from killing our children and friends.

This from a gun owner with a concealed carry permit...Tom

BW326 Loc: Boynton Beach, Florida

I agree with you on just about everything but I did find the above statement a little curious. I was wondering why so many people think that liberals are all against the death penalty. I think it runs pretty much across the board between liberals and conservatives.

What I did notice though, when doing a generic search for the term "liberals and the death penalty" is that a lot of the confusion probably comes from conservative criticisms of the liberal party, which remarkably runs both ways ... a number of the conservative blogs claim that all liberals are hypocrites because they applaud the death penalty but are pro-abortion. Seems we're taking the heat on the death penalty issue for being both "against it" and for being "for it".

Most liberals that I know and talk to are for the death penalty, and not necessarily for any deep, fundamentally philosopical grounds either. Many of us would just like to see justice served and be done with it ... no problems with recidivism there.

Let's face it, there are "bleeding liberals" and there are "conservative wingnuts" on both ends of the spectrum. Doesn't mean that you or I are either.

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

This is how the liberal mind twists facts. This study was based solely on interwiews with killers already in prison. No one has conducted a study of the ordinary everyday Joe on the street to determine the answer. Death penalty is definitely a deterrent on the everyday guy who otherwise may have committed a murder. How many of you out there, one time or another, got pissed bad enough to someone and thought how good it would feel to rub him out, but didn't because of the consequences? It's because the deterrant is working. So, as far as it not being a deterrent, only on a very small percent.

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

Personally, I certainly agree with that. I am neither a liberal nor a conservative, yet, I am both. I think the liberals got the stigma because they seem to holler against the death penalty louder, or at least the media provides more space for their voice on the subject.

Highlake Loc: Yucaipa, CA

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Photogdog Loc: New Kensington, PA

I have to share this with you, you'll appreciate it. I was good friends with a guy who owned a gunshop in a nearby town. I had bought a bunch of stuff from him over the years. His normal hours were Tuesday through Saturday, 9:00 AM-5:00 PM with the store staying open until 9:00 PM on Thursday.

One Friday night, I'm driving back home from the indoor range and I see his lights are on. I stopped and hit the buzzer (It's kind of a bad neighborhood so you had to be buzzed in). I asked him if he was open and he says "No, the BATFE are here pulling a surprise inspection. You want to come in?" I laughed and said "No, I'll come back later".

A couple of weeks go by & I'm in the shop. I asked him how things went with the BATFE and he went off on me! He said they pulled his paperwork & were writing him up for things that were absolutely ludicrous. Buyers not putting periods after their middle initials, using abbreviations for their county of residence instead of spelling it out (and the field is VERY, VERY small), etc.

Here's a guy that was given a commendation by the local police chief for notifying the cops about a straw buyer who paid some guy off to come in and buy a cheap .380 Auto with a bunch of well used $5 & $10 dollar bills. The cops picked up the actual purchaser the same day before he could use the gun.

The federal government comes along later and hassles him about minor details in paperwork while gunfire is a common occurance in the projects a few blocks away!

The funny thing is, there was a local mob boss who ran the town in the '70s and '80s but he kept all of the business on the down-low. He and his gang absolutely WOULD NOT tolerate any street runners. You could walk through town at 2:00 in the morning in complete safety. These days you don't know if you go through town at 2:00 in the afternoon without getting shot or stabbed.

D.Clayton Loc: Arizona

I have to ask you... Do you really care what type of device is used to get you to stop the load noise of your party? The results are the same...it's a person that has lost control... Not the assault rifle or shotgun or pistol! The only real answers to your scenario is 1) show some responsibility for your party so as to not disturb your neighbors 2) be prepared to defend yourself from any crazy whethers its a neighbor or one of your party goers!
The key here is the people involved and not the guns available to them.
Did you run a background check on everyone you asked to attend your party to ensure they are of sound mind before they arrive? Of course not! There comes a time when you have to trust people! Trust your friends and neighbors, show respect, and always be prepared for unexpected.
God Bless

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

:thumbup:

RichieC Loc: Adirondacks

So you are saying, if gun control goes through, people like you will then be feel free to have loud and intrusive parties that disturb the peace. You can feel safe haveing a free-for-all! I for one make sure I don't disturb my neighbors, not because I am afraid they are armed, frankly I have no idea if they are, I know I am armed to the teeth. I just think an obtrusive party like that would make me a poor neighbor.

But, still using your analogy, if you are willing to do act like that, aren't you or people who think like you, then perhaps also more apt to take other liberties with my property knowing there is little I can do about it. In fact, once you know I am unarmed, won't you then know on top of simple intrusive actions like loud music.... then really you could in fact-- break in, steal me blind and do anything you wish with little fear of my being able to resist you? I mean, what am I going to do about it?


If the fear of the simple fact that there might be a weapon of your description in your neighbors house, prevents you from having a neighborhood wide disturbing party... then it has done it's job without ever leaving its corner. And that same weapon, whether real or not, deters the vast majority of cowardly thief's from even entering your neighborhood, or that they would at least wait till no one is home, ( a much safer situation for all involved) then that same potential weapon has once again done its jos... just sitting in its imaginary potential corner.

Your analogy supports the small part of the 2nd amendment that gives us all the right and means to self protection completely.

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

What of this scenario, let's presume a squeeky clean straw buyer passes all the background check, purchases, then turns over the weapon to a felon. Whatever happened to the value of the background check?

Birdog9999 Loc: New Jersey

lovesphotos the purpose of the background check is to register where the guns are so that the next step will be to come and take them away.Think it can't happen here watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8aT4U_pPqY.

lovesphotos Loc: Colorado and Arizona

Birdog9999, I am not naive enough to realize the any number of potenial acts it can lead. Examples of which are plastered all over the history.
By the way, you are bit late in mentioning the registration. It has been the law since 1963.