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Apr 3, 2024 11:14:59   #
Wallen wrote:
Your still thinking it is not possible when I already gave information that I had lived in an island nation. 7,641 islands to be exact. I (me and 2 other friends) built our first boat when I was in High school. We capsized, sank and rebuilt it too. Good & fun memories

They are inland by the way, 250km from open waters and 140+km distance overland.


Understand, but building and sinking a small boat doesn’t necessarily qualify you as an experienced mariner. What was being questioned were some of your comments. Perhaps the Philippines are different, but on the east coast of North America, where the accident occurred, the wind does blow at night - note that the report was 6 MPH at the time of the collision. That may seem trivial if you're not a sailor, but when you have 175,000 sq ft of surface area to blow against, it can definitely change a vessel’s course.
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Apr 3, 2024 10:52:00   #
jerryc41 wrote:
As a kid, I loved sci-fi movies, as bad as they were in comparison with today's films. I generally watch them on YouTube and sometimes on Netflix. YouTube could have several different posts of the same movie by different people. As for my favorites, that's hard to say. I like "When World's Collide," and that line was used on a Seinfeld episode when friends from two different segments of a character's (George?) life met. I also like "When the Earth Stood Still" and "War of the Worlds" - "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." I'd better stop here, or I'll be adding titles all day.
As a kid, I loved sci-fi movies, as bad as they we... (show quote)


War of the Worlds and The (original) Day the Earth Stood Still are great classics. Saw them both as a young child and both scared the hell out of me
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Apr 2, 2024 18:05:49   #
dustie wrote:
One prime mover, one propeller, very common on vessels that size and category.

Looking at the publicly available videos of the movement leading up to the resulting crash, in all their weaknesses due to camera distance, available lighting, camera viewing angle, etc, there is something else that arises as a question, and I keep genuinely hoping can be determined and publicly reported.

Just going by the low level of being able to determine detail in those videos, it appears to me that ship made a more rapid course change than would be expected possible by use of rudder control, especially in those conditions. After there was an initial course change, the ship does not appear to continue in a turn, but takes a rather straight course in the new direction.
Now, if that course change is more rapid than the rudder can produce, I am highly interested in knowing if it can and will be determined if there was any contact with the bottom or an unknown obstruction on the bottom that deflected the ship to the side that way.

Wind above the water surface? ........well, maybe.......but, still what appears to be a too rapid course change. If the online places that report conditions there are correct there was a six mile per hour breeze at the time of the incident.
The videos don't seem to show more than a rather gentle ripple on the water surface.......six mph seems reasonable.
One prime mover, one propeller, very common on ves... (show quote)


Yep, just for fun calculated the force of a 6mph wind against a vessel this size/loaded directly abeam, and it’s not trivial (26,600 Newtons), BUT we don’t know the wind direction or currents at this location. Anyone here a professional mariner that’s sailed these waters?
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Apr 2, 2024 15:18:54   #
Wallen wrote:
I grew up in the Philippines. We are islanders.


And are you an experienced boater or sailer logging time sailing at night in coastal waters?
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Apr 2, 2024 15:17:02   #
Wallen wrote:
I grew up in the Philippines. We are islanders.


“ Without propulsion or tugboats, a ship this size is nearly impossible to stop.

The emergency generator does not connect to propulsion but should support steering and navigation systems but the ships heading appears to have been pushed off course by the wind directly into the support column.

Ships are not required to have tugboat escorts when passing under the Francis Scott Key Bridge so they have limited ability to slow down on their own when they lose power and can not put the propeller into reverse.

According to past photos, she is equipped with a bow thruster. However, these are not typically connected to emergency power systems. Even if it were engaged, bow thrusters are designed for slow-speed maneuvers and have a limited ability to push the bow into the wind when the ship’s speed exceeds 5 knots.”
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Apr 2, 2024 15:07:26   #
Wallen wrote:
I'm missing a lot of things.
Not discussing the wind as it happened at dead of the night which normally have still air, but not saying it was not a factor. It could easilly have been.
Just discussing and presenting my views, some of which are contrary to others views.


It seems to me that you haven’t boated or sailed in coastal waters. On an inland lake, the winds do die down at night, but these are coastal waters.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:48:20   #
Wallen wrote:
Nope. Rudders do not produce thrust. No different from a gliding airplane. The boats rudder works by causing a reaction to the fluid moving on it. It does not matter if the rudder is going through the fluid or it is steady but fluid is flowing around it, you get a reaction. That was its designed purpose.

Since the boat is moving forward, the rudder will still have effect. Only diminished in effectivity, because water flows faster on it when the propellers are working.
Only when the boat is drifting, when the water and the boat is moving as one, will the rudder be useless. The boats mass, for a short while, made that drifting non-factor. It was still cruising forward.
I'm hoping that investigators do find the problem and have it mitigated.
Nope. Rudders do not produce thrust. No different ... (show quote)


You’re missing facts, one of which is that without electrical power, the rudder can’t be moved, and the vessel’s course is then affected by the current and especially the windage. Stacked high with cargo, the vessel is essentially a huge sail (perhaps 175,000 sq ft), and only a few Knots of wind can exert a huge force.

As for your comment about slowing down, they were moving at a very reasonable speed - enough to maintain steerageway, but once power was lost, they had no way to effect the speed or course of the vessel nor could they reverse the engines. They did try a list ditch effort by dropping the anchor, but the mass of the vessel is so large that while it may have slowed it slightly, it could not stop it. Non mariners don’t appreciate the tremendous effect current and windage can have on a vessel.
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Apr 2, 2024 13:13:16   #
Pls tell us why you are running a DOS OS. Just curious..
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Apr 1, 2024 16:33:09   #
dustie wrote:
I was born in the military.
After seventeen years of continuously re-living the first day of boot camp, I left to see if civilian life is any different.


And is it?
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Apr 1, 2024 13:51:20   #
jerryc41 wrote:
That's what I like about those 1950s films. The night before I watched "beneath," I watched "The Thing from Outer Space," with James Arness as the space monster. The actor who was the captain on the sub played the part of an Air Force captain.

Eddie Fisher played the part of McLeod in "Beneath." I didn't recognize him.


I grew up on those 50s/60s Sci Fi movies and still like them. Where do you stream yours? And just for fun, what do you consider the best ones ever made? I like Forbidden Planet and This Island Earth.
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Apr 1, 2024 13:28:17   #
Sargent, E5 US Army 1966-1969 MOS 34B2H (computer repair instructor) DaNang, VietNam 1968-1969
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Apr 1, 2024 13:22:57   #
jerryc41 wrote:
I got one, and it was a disappointment. It requires an app on the phone, and I don't have it. I don't know if I lost the instructions for downloading it, or what, but I can't use it.

You want one with a light that you can turn on and off and adjust the brightness. You should be able to focus it. I've seen some that have fixed focus, and unless it's 1/2", or whatever, away from the subject, the image won't be in focus. There are several endoscopes available on Amazon with a wide range of prices. A unit that can save images would be nice. I suspect that a good, usable endoscope would be justifiably expensive.

These links are ridiculously long, the first one, especially!

https://www.bestreviews.guide/borescopes?origin=google&google_params[matchtype]=b&google_params[network]=g&google_params[device]=c&google_params[creative]=664361368035&google_params[keyword]=borescopes&google_params[adposition]=&google_params[adgroupid]=63776168352&google_params[campaignid]=1652855242&bs=&google_params[feeditemid]=&google_params[targetid]=kwd-11185571&google_params[loc_interest_ms]=&google_params[loc_physical_ms]=9004811&google_params[devicemodel]=&google_params[target]=&age=others&hhi=High&dest=0&sys_id=0|678&origin=google&google_params[matchtype]=b&google_params[network]=g&google_params[device]=c&google_params[creative]=664361368035&google_params[keyword]=borescopes&google_params[adposition]=&google_params[adgroupid]=63776168352&google_params[campaignid]=1652855242&bs=&google_params[feeditemid]=&google_params[targetid]=kwd-11185571&google_params[loc_interest_ms]=&google_params[loc_physical_ms]=9004811&google_params[devicemodel]=&google_params[target]=&dest=0&sys_id=0|678&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYQvqlpk2r_wZdyZGi4ZvOtX8jaqFTIX_PMIsrTYxWFc1DplyiHqvyxoCVKIQAvD_BwE

https://buyersguide.org/borescope/t/best?Country=US&m=b&d=c&c=650921805551&p=&oid=kwd-10204701&lp=9004811&li=&nw=g&nts=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtqmwBhBVEiwAL-WAYUZfnYsDzmWm50jDzAHbFX2-owdcaLlc9ZspkMeKdcq8DGb1xJcXnBoCgjIQAvD_BwE&tdid=10397064&gad_source=1

EDITED: The ones that auto focus cost over $200. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09N8HSSW1?tag=bg1-806422-20
I got one, and it was a disappointment. It requir... (show quote)


There are a number of universal aps for endoscopes (some free) and some specifically for android and IPhones (I use mine with a small laptop for the larger screen) just Google “universal aps for endoscopes” and take your pick.
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Apr 1, 2024 13:17:41   #
BBurns wrote:
Mother Nature does have her own way of culling out the weak !!!


And the foolish/stupid
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Apr 1, 2024 12:32:05   #
Wallen wrote:
Makes one think. Who in his right mind would make a multi million dollar boat that can't be steered once the power is out, and make the steering worked only by one engine? That would be gross negligence on the designer, or gross negligence on the operator/owner of the ship, if they allowed it to travel with only one its system working.

As for the captain to overrule the pilot who was managing the emergency, well, the pilot was there for a reason. He was the captain at that moment. There is much to dig on that event that I'd not call it an accident, just yet.
Makes one think. Who in his right mind would make ... (show quote)


Electrical power is required for all large boat steering. It controls the hydraulics that control the rudder. There are typically 3 diesel electrical generators plus a backup, so there is plenty of redundancy.

The captain (master) of a vessel always has the final authority and responsibility for the vessel. The pilot is on board to assist in navigation.
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Apr 1, 2024 12:23:25   #
dwmoar wrote:
Wow, Your post didn't age well.... Jumping to conclusions is a specialty I see.


There are now 3 large cranes onsite, and a 200 ton piece was cut loose and removed yesterday.
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