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Ban on Photo Manipulation
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Jan 16, 2018 06:46:52   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)


What we are talking about is two different things. Your talking face and body manipulation. Most photographers do scene manipulation and interpretation. That is what most of the posts here deal with. CVS is a whole other animal.

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Jan 16, 2018 06:57:06   #
dragonfist Loc: Stafford, N.Y.
 
mwsilvers wrote:
The OP sounds like he's saying just that. He said in his first post, "On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). "

The implication of that statement is that images straight out of the camera are more pure and less manipulated, and post processed images should be marked with effectively a Scarlet Letter, and could therefore be considered less legitimate. I'm saying jpegs coming straight out of the camera are also post processed by the camera, which is why I thought his premise was ridiculous. And today some cameras can crop and create special effects, removing vignetting, change sharpness, contrast , color tone, straighten verticals affected by barrel distortion, remove chromatic aberration, create HDR images, as well as other things. Only, the in-camera settings usually don't work as well as third-party software. I think it's hypocritical for people to suggest that images straight out of the camera are somehow more legitimate. Or perhaps it's just ignorance of what's happening to the images in camera. As a result, I do not believe my earlier comment was irrelevant.
The OP sounds like he's saying just that. He said ... (show quote)


I think they are referring to changing the subject matter as to physical terms. Taking off wrinkles, showing weight loss through photo manipulation, etc. I don't think it has anything to do with what is used to get a good photograph that doesn't alter the physical attributes of a person.

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Jan 16, 2018 06:58:50   #
BboH Loc: s of 2/21, Ellicott City, MD
 
The CVS no manipulation made the evening NBC news and the showed a face that had been brushed and against an un-brushed face - a mole and wrinkle and spots were shown
The idea is to stop giving teens unrealistic aspirations.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:14:27   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
rehess wrote:
You seem to have raised at least three different subjects in this relatively short post
(1) the OP's proposal for icons
(2) what CVS is doing
(3) in-camera processing

I strongly dislike long posts. I have an even greater dislike for threads that go in several different directions. Topic (1) really ought to be discussed in the thread in which it was raised. Topic (3) is a discussion all of its own. Thus, my comments right now will relate only to topic (2) - but I know the other two are there.

As I said previously, I believe CVS is commendable in trying to address a real issue {I should mention here that I have two daughters - both of whom have survived their teen years relatively unscathed}. I don't know what the authors of this policy know about PP, and I don't know what the authors of the press release know about anything, but I am quite certain that this is a policy to eliminate "airbrushing" away pounds and blemishes. The OP makes it sound much more than that, but I don't think it is, and raising all those other issues in the context of this new policy is crazy-making - the sort of thing that generates lots of heat but little light.

As far as the other stuff is concerned, I hope we can rise above it. I have tried to make clear that I respect the work of artists, and I hope you can respect the work of documentarians such as me.
You seem to have raised at least three different s... (show quote)

I certainly have nothing against documentations, I have nothing against policies that want to ensure that images are not modified in a way that is not representative of the original. I do have a problem with suggestions that post processing to enhance the exposure is somehow not as pure as images manipulated by the camera. Perhaps I misunderstood the OP's intent.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:21:58   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Architect1776 wrote:
My first thought.
The master of manipulation.


If you want to see a master of manipulation in the darkroom, skip Ansel Adams and go to Jerry Uelsmann.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:34:10   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
Image Manipulation Police.
"Thought Control"?


Actually, I think that those that create false realities using image manipulation are the Thought Controllers. The restraints are there to keep things from going overboard and people getting the shaft or worse, hurt.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:37:50   #
agambrell
 
The following quote from CVS explains the limits a little bit. "We will not digitally alter or change a person's shape, size, proportion, skin or eye color, or enhance or alter their lines or wrinkles or other individual characteristics."
This doesn't appear to affect necessary processing of a digital image, just "manipulation." According to the article, CVS is one of the largest sellers of beauty products and the large beauty supply companies appear to be willing to go along with CVS' requirement. To get CVS' stamp of approval, I guess whoever does the photo shoot will have to provide RAW images as well as the processed image.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:40:31   #
bbrown5154 Loc: Baltimore, MD
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)


My guess is this is aimed at the diet and fitness products. Good luck with that.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:42:11   #
cabunit Loc: SE Connecticut
 
While we're at it, let's talk about VIDEO manipulation...like OxiClean getting that "grape juice" out with one squirt. I must be buying Chinese counterfeit OxiClean....

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Jan 16, 2018 07:44:52   #
mjgoulet
 
Ansel Adams said that a photo is 50% post processing. Either you let your camera do it or you do it yourself. I think we as photographers know better of what the scene looked like than the camera. I have little good to say about CVS.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:47:01   #
Booker
 
Rick Loomis wrote:
The greatest manipulator of images was Ansel Adams. Don't believe it , look at the history of his life. In my opinion all of the above arguments are just balony.
Rick Loomis


Further regarding Ansel Adams and photo manipulation -

“You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” – Ansel Adams

And to quote the "Whither the Book" website:
Ansel Adams, not only was a great photographer, he was a master of the darkroom. In the time of film, the darkroom was Photoshop. Adams, in his book, The Print describes the work that he did in the darkroom on another of his famous images, Mount McKinley and Wonder Lake, Alaska (1948),

“The sky was of such low saturation blue that no filter would have had much effect… Considerable burning [darkening] and dodging [lightening]
are required. I hold back the shadowed lake and foreground for about three-fourths of the exposure time, using a constantly moving card held relatively close to the lens…The lake surface is burned in later to balance the amount of dodging of the surrounding hills and foreground.”
-Ansel Adams, The Print, Little Brown (1983), p. 166.

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Jan 16, 2018 07:48:15   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)

Two entirely different issues - selling beauty 'aids' and misrepresentation on advertising versus Post Processing general images that don't make people feel inferior (unless you are a photographer)

Advertising and honesty is always an issue - this latest notice is merely another scam in order to evoke interest in the company as if it is 'more ethical'. They will not use pictures of 'ugly people' or show that their products do not work 'as advertised' using befor and after images when it fails.

Look up FAX ie a copy. it is not accepted as a true representation but as a facsimily. Most people accept that an image is a representation NOT A COPY.

We do not see the world in the same way - for a variety of reasons. Even a crash scene has discrepencies in witness statements. We also, do not want to see the world, in the same way. without reason why look at ugly? when you can look at beauty. (which is only in the eye of the beholder)

If you want to judge others: that is your choice too. It needs no justification from anyone. you gain little by doing so and therefore it gives you no advantage other than 'self importance'. Yet another individualistic trait defines how you see your world.

Real life (Reality) is an individual perception.

I could be George - but I am not absolutely certain!

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Jan 16, 2018 08:03:17   #
aschweik Loc: NE Ohio
 
As a person who works with middle school girls, I am happy to see CVS's decision. It is a step in the right direction. I have seen what teenage girls go through...having 3 of them myself and also working with others. I am noticing that most of the posters here are adult men who never lived in the teenage girl world. It is amazing to me to see the body shaming, the put-downs, the meanness that goes on every day, mostly through social media. There are horrible suicides at nearby schools due to bullying or shaming. I'm not saying CVS's decision is going to change all that. And altering an advertising image is completely different than altering your own images. Who care if CVS alters white balance or not? What we're talking about here is altering reality. And that altered reality can affect the woman/teenage population quite a bit. Some can handle it, some can't. Some are realistic, some aren't. I know I'd rather see a normal looking person in an ad than some 90 pound Photoshopped fake. But that's who kids want to look like. I don't worry as much about how adults perceive an ad. They're adults and can make up their own mind. But teenage girls (and now, even younger), believe what they see. Let CVS try this and see how it works. Maybe it'll do someone some good.

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Jan 16, 2018 08:05:58   #
JeffL Loc: New Jersey
 
dragonfist wrote:
I think that using a manipulated photo to show unobtainable results from using a product is fraud at best. This would be especially true as related to products concerning teenagers. They are at a vulnerable age concerning their image and how others perceive them and don't have the judgement of an adult. I have a feeling this is what CVS is trying to prevent.


I agree with this observation. If you, as a photographer and artist, manipulate an image to achieve a desired effect, you aren’t required to announce that fact or your techniques, which may be proprietary. On the other hand, if you are advertising makeup to people and alter the image to depict an impossible result from using your product, that is deceptive. It is no different than advertising that your vehicle can deliver 50 miles per gallon, when in reality, it only gets 30 miles per gallon.

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Jan 16, 2018 08:18:14   #
Country Boy Loc: Beckley, WV
 
I hate unrealistic images in advertising - especially those that advertise burgers and fries. That is where they should draw a line!

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