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Ban on Photo Manipulation
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Jan 15, 2018 19:21:47   #
Bugfan Loc: Toronto, Canada
 
Indiana wrote:
This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!
This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awar... (show quote)


I have always been a strong advocate for truth in advertising. When it comes to models and cosmetics etc truth would go a long way to keeping people healthier too. I applaud the suggestion that such images should be marked as having been manipulated.

The only problem is that this isn't going to change anything. It was images like those that created a new definition of fashion and beauty. If you want to change this to a healthier image it's not enough to point out a picture is not real, it's important that it is different enough to start the process of defining the new beauty standard. If that is done new images might get doctored but the past ones at least will be forgotten.

That said though, photography is also an art form. It has many uses like capturing what something or someone looks like, but it also has the capability to illustrate a moment that is unreal, that is often the nature of art. When I visited the Louvre I did not see a label on the painting that said it was manipulated even though the artist had made many changes in its creation.

I think when we are talking about selling and marketing, the images do have to be honest but when it comes to photographic art, there should not be anything defacing the results.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:21:51   #
boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)


If there is no photo manipulation (impossible) then models or photographers will use make up so as to present "perfect" complections to the camera. And/or only photograph "perfect"models. Truth in advertising is an oxymoron.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:29:41   #
martinfisherphoto Loc: Lake Placid Florida
 
I read your post:

In writing, we have genre. That is, we have classification like fiction, non-fiction, biography, creative non-fiction, all with guidelines and restrictions as to what is acceptable and what the standards are. If an Author presents their work as non-fiction, and there is clear evidence that elements of the text is fiction, then the author is subject to public and private ridicule and ultimate discredit and career ending retaliation. Authors know that classification is restrictive and representative of certain assumptions that cannot be tampered with. In photography, there is no standard. There is no presumed assumption other than what the photographer tells us...as in out of camera (OOC) or post processing (PP) that indicates manipulation or not. The assumption in a photograph is that the photographer and the camera/lens produced the photo without any outside technical influence (PP). If there is outside influence, it should somehow be acknowledged; otherwise, the assumption is that the photo represents the camera/lens capture without manipulation. Perhaps nothing more than a small acronym indication at the edge of the photo...OOC or PP. Just my thoughts...just making my contribution.

Why would you want to Police other photographers. Just to note: I noticed you have posted at least one photo in the Photo Gallery. No mention of SOOC or PP

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Jan 15, 2018 19:32:20   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)

Ridiculous because all jpegs are posts processed in camera, which is why they look different from raw files. Most of us use post processing to enhance the exposure with sharpening, contrast and deep shadow detail recovery, etc. If you are against all post processing then you have to accept using unprocessed raw files at the standard for photography. Have fun with that.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:43:18   #
dragonfist Loc: Stafford, N.Y.
 
I am thinking the art crowd are getting a tad upset over something that has nothing to do with art. The problem is changing the image to make it look as if it was the advertised product that caused the result, not photoshop. Art is one thing, commercial photography being used to obfuscate the truth is quite another.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:47:17   #
jcboy3
 
Indiana wrote:
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photography & Reality" here is an interesting development from a major retailer that doesn't surprise me...and in fact, I was surprised that someone had not done it yet.

"CVS Health plans to announce Monday (1/15/2018) that it will ban manipulation in its store brand makeup marketing and promotional displays amid growing awareness of the harmful nature of touched-up images."
"...the decision reflects an acknowledgement that 'unrealistic body images' are a significant driver of health issues, 'especially among women.' "We're all consuming massive amounts of media everyday and we're not necessarily looking at imagery that is real and true," To try to hold ourselves up to be like those women is Impossible because even those women don't look like how they appear in those photographs" The retailer will place an icon with a "digitally modified" warning on any marketing materials that don't comply by 2020*

On my comments on "Photograpy & Reality" earlier yesterday I suggested that the icon's OCC (out of camera) and PP (post processing) be used on photo's to acknowledge to the viewer what they are looking at...original camera/lens shot, or photo with post processing (manipulation). This article by USA TODAY seems to suggest an awareness of misrepresentation by presenting a photo as reality, when in fact, it has been manipulated without acknowledgement, which in fact, supports my earlier position on representation/misrepresentation on the prior thread. I have been surprised that a challenge to the "truth in advertising" clause has not been applied and enforced on the visual media by consumer and product (visual) users. Interesting development. Please respond and please stay on topic!

* see USA TODAY by Nathan Bomey posted 1/15/2018.
As a follow-up to yesterdays thread "Photogra... (show quote)


Makeup is a misrepresentation of reality. So is hair dye. So are "uplift" bras. These need to be stopped as well.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:48:35   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Photographer Jim wrote:
This is an example of how the venue or how the image is used is a key factor as to identifying a photo as having been manipulated or not. I have never objected to the idea that in some areas (journalism, legal forensics, and to some extent advertising) manipulation of an image without acknowledgement is unethical at best, and criminal at worst.

Advertising presents a perplexing situation because while some manipulation may involve no more than a few aesthetic touch ups, other manipulations can be (and may intentionally be) misleading to the point of purposeful deception. Where the line between the two lies, is not always easy to define. However, if an advertiser or publication wishes to demand such upfront notification, the more power to them. I appreciate their efforts.

Where I generally take objection is when people carry this beyond this type of venue, and suggest that those creating photographic art also be required to identify with a label whether they have manipulated the image. Unlike journalism, legal services, or advertising, there is no harm that can be done to the viewer via “deception” in an image presented as visual art. As such, I see no justification whatsoever for creative photographers to identify beforehand when they have used PP, and especially if that is to be done with a physical marking on the print.
This is an example of how the venue or how the ima... (show quote)


Remember all those numbers on your film photos when you picked them up from the drugstore? Photo manipulation.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:53:25   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Ridiculous because all jpegs are posts processed in camera, which is why they look different from raw files. Most of us use post processing to enhance the exposure with sharpening, contrast and deep shadow detail recovery, etc. If you are against all post processing then you have to accept using unprocessed raw files at the standard for photography. Have fun with that.

You say this over and over again, and it is still irrelevant. Running image through automation is conceptually just like running film through machine. When you find someone opposed to level adjustment, sharpening, noise reduction, leveling, and/or cropping, then the two of you can have a nice conversation.

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Jan 15, 2018 19:55:22   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
dragonfist wrote:
I am thinking the art crowd are getting a tad upset over something that has nothing to do with art. The problem is changing the image to make it look as if it was the advertised product that caused the result, not photoshop. Art is one thing, commercial photography being used to obfuscate the truth is quite another.


Yep, two different uses of photography. It seems like many didn't read the topic post.

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Jan 15, 2018 21:14:11   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
Rick Loomis wrote:
The greatest manipulator of images was Ansel Adams. Don't believe it , look at the history of his life. In my opinion all of the above arguments are just balony.
Rick Loomis


Undoubtedly Adams was skilled at manipulation, but not necessarily the greatest. There were numerous other photographers doing photo manipulation both to the extent and with equal skill as he; before him and during his lifetime. The major difference is that Adams wrote books about it in detail, while others did not. If Adams had not published books on his technique and his approach in the darkroom, he certainly would not be nearly as well remembered today. Also contributing to his fame, Ansel Adams was adept at self-promotion, and used this proficiency to become a favorite in circles of wealthy clients.

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Jan 15, 2018 21:16:32   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
Rick Loomis wrote:
The greatest manipulator of images was Ansel Adams. Don't believe it , look at the history of his life. In my opinion all of the above arguments are just balony.
Rick Loomis


Have you seen Jerry Uelsmann's work?

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Jan 15, 2018 22:16:47   #
tinplater Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
 
This would be the film equivalent of pointing out whether your print was dodged, cropped, burned, solarized or any of a number of manipulations that we carried out in our darkrooms. I commend truth in advertising, but would feel better if CVS would get rid of all the health aids, pills, vitamins, drinks that claim to work miracles when in fact they are generally worthless.

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Jan 15, 2018 22:44:15   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Makeup is a misrepresentation of reality. So is hair dye. So are "uplift" bras. These need to be stopped as well.


Absolutely. And while we're at it all ads should be shot by weekend snapshot shooters with poor eyesight since professionals know how to use light, composition and their equipment to make their models look more attractive then they may appear in person. That must be stopped!!!

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Jan 15, 2018 23:11:01   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Absolutely. And while we're at it all ads should be shot by weekend snapshot shooters with poor eyesight since professionals know how to use light, composition and their equipment to make their models look more attractive then they may appear in person. That must be stopped!!!

Now you're being silly!

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Jan 15, 2018 23:23:30   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
rehess wrote:
This has nothing to do with white balance; most likely, they just admitted they've been "air brushing" weight off their models, and have promised to stop doing that.


It doesn't specify that, it simply says all manipulating is banned.

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