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Dec 27, 2017 16:44:12   #
John Geyer
 
Half of US Pays no income tax....43 million get a tax break, thank you President Trump,
Jobs and the economy
• Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
• Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
• Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
• Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
• A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
• A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
• A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
• Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.
Killing job-stifling regulations
• Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
• Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
• Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
• Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
• Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.
Fair trade
• Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

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Dec 27, 2017 16:44:44   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
charles tabb wrote:
In the future, I wonder how much my subscription to the H.H. will be?


No, but I know a few people that should have to pay every time they post a new topic. Maybe that would put an end to their daily relentless stupid questions (x2).

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Dec 27, 2017 16:45:34   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
John Geyer wrote:
Half of US Pays no income tax....43 million get a tax break, thank you President Trump,
Jobs and the economy
• Passage of the tax reform bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts and repealing the Obamacare mandate.
• Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.
• Creation of 1.7 million new jobs, cutting unemployment to 4.1 percent.
• Saw the Dow Jones reach record highs.
• A rebound in economic confidence to a 17-year high.
• A new executive order to boost apprenticeships.
• A move to boost computer sciences in Education Department programs.
• Prioritizing women-owned businesses for some $500 million in SBA loans.
Killing job-stifling regulations
• Signed an Executive Order demanding that two regulations be killed for every new one creates. He beat that big and cut 16 rules and regulations for every one created, saving $8.1 billion.
• Signed 15 congressional regulatory cuts.
• Withdrew from the Obama-era Paris Climate Agreement, ending the threat of environmental regulations.
• Signed an Executive Order cutting the time for infrastructure permit approvals.
• Eliminated an Obama rule on streams that Trump felt unfairly targeted the coal industry.
Fair trade
• Made good on his campaign promise to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership.
Half of US Pays no income tax....43 million get a ... (show quote)

Barf.

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Dec 27, 2017 17:01:40   #
N4646W
 
One point I feel everyone is missing about subscriptions is that a lot of folks are on a fixed income. Maybe they have the leeway to add another monthly debt until something comes up and it is no longer affordable. Those are the folks that scrimp and squeeze their budgets to get a program or piece of gear that suits their needs or simply have to do without and plod along with what they have. Not all of us that are retired had their financial goals met. Sure, back in the days I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought, just another business expense to write off, now no chance. Yes some subscription plans are affordable and this is the way it seems to be going, but some of the market is going to be lost, but made up by newer users. So they loose some of the old-timers, the market will make up for them with the younger market, just business. As the saying goes, "nothing personal, just business".

Ron

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Dec 27, 2017 17:29:40   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
Not to be disparaging to the amateur/enthusiasts members - if $10/mo is an obscenely unreasonable amount of money to pay for a good set of tools - I am totally speechless . . . 😧[/quote]

Gene51 there is an old adage; never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins. If I were a professional the subscription plan would be great deal. But as I am soon to retired amateur I really have to think of the bottom line with a fixed income. $10 a month might seem trivial to you for a good tool but not all of us have that where with all. If it's a choice between meds and software one does not have much choice

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Dec 27, 2017 17:47:34   #
mrussell
 
When you consider that these so-called software so-called companies have no costs whatsoever - programmers are volunteering to work for them for free, after all - this is absurd. They should just give us this software.

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Dec 27, 2017 18:05:24   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
mrussell wrote:
When you consider that these so-called software so-called companies have no costs whatsoever - programmers are volunteering to work for them for free, after all - this is absurd. They should just give us this software.


Only on freeware do they work for free...For Adobe, and others, they get good money.......

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Dec 27, 2017 18:14:26   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
Vanderpix wrote:
Not to be disparaging to the amateur/enthusiasts members - if $10/mo is an obscenely unreasonable amount of money to pay for a good set of tools - I am totally speechless . . . 😧


Gene51 there is an old adage; never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins. If I were a professional the subscription plan would be great deal. But as I am soon to retired amateur I really have to think of the bottom line with a fixed income. $10 a month might seem trivial to you for a good tool but not all of us have that where with all. If it's a choice between meds and software one does not have much choice[/quote]

I to live on a limited budget, and am retired.....What people are saying it is a whole lot cheaper to rent than buy, if you compare to buying and dividing the cost by 18 months (the average update time) it is a few bucks cheaper. For some, like me, that expect 5 years from a SW then it is 1/4 the cost. For the two most use LR and APS, It is drastically cheaper to rent. Its all about choice. You also have the choice to use comparable freeware, with not much support if any. If 10 bucks a month is going to break someone, then $800 - $900 every few years is even more out of range! For most, the average savings is probably $30 a month to rent, if that's their way to go.

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Dec 27, 2017 18:21:03   #
mrussell
 
Really and truely!?!? How cheeky is that - people not working for free? Damned Capitalists!

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Dec 27, 2017 18:22:43   #
mrussell
 
Every Congressfool who voted for this abomination should hang.

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Dec 27, 2017 18:25:42   #
Vanderpix Loc: New Jersey
 
frankraney wrote:
I to live on a limited budget, and am retired.....What people are saying it is a whole lot cheaper to rent than buy, if you compare to buying and dividing the cost by 18 months (the average update time) it is a few bucks cheaper. For some, like me, that expect 5 years from a SW then it is 1/4 the cost. For the two most use LR and APS, It is drastically cheaper to rent. Its all about choice. You also have the choice to use comparable freeware, with not much support if any. If 10 bucks a month is going to break someone, then $800 - $900 every few years is even more out of range! For most, the average savings is probably $30 a month to rent, if that's their way to go.
I to live on a limited budget, and am retired........ (show quote)


Only if you update all the time is there a savings. I have been using Adobe products for about 15 years and have paid in total about $600 because I did not do every update. A subscription for the past 15 years would have cost me about $1800. The point here if one's needs do not require the latest and the greatest then one makes the choice if they need it or not. I also wonder why both subscription and perpetual license can't be offered simultaneously? Car dealers do this why can't software companies?

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Dec 27, 2017 18:51:19   #
Haydon
 
Cdouthitt wrote:
No, but I know a few people that should have to pay every time they post a new topic. Maybe that would put an end to their daily relentless stupid questions (x2).


Clint, I love this comment. I laughed for 30 seconds. I couldn't agree more.

For those infuriated by subscription based software, make it known by using an alternative. That's the only way to get this point made. Complaining will remain unheard...an unopened wallet will be noticed.

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Dec 27, 2017 18:54:57   #
BigGWells Loc: Olympia, WA
 
Many more companies are headed towards the subscription way. When Adobe first came out with theirs, it was like no way, this is gonna cost big time. But for $10.00 a month, you really do get your monies worth. Before you had to wait up to 18 months to get and upgrade, then pay for that. Now you get fixes and upgrades as soon as they happen. I have On1 Raw, has some great features. But still my go to is Light Room and Photoshop.

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Dec 27, 2017 18:56:03   #
mrussell
 
I can update my Fusion?

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Dec 27, 2017 19:06:40   #
clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa
 
Ednsb wrote:
LAUGHS.. Most of this profit is not from software or software subscriptions you would buy. It is from enterprise marketing software and cloud based storage. Go read their annual report and understand how software is being sold by big companies. I'm retired from IBM, Oracle and other multi-billion revenue companies. The model for years in that space is buying a perpetual license for a lot of money then paying a support fee yearly for updates and maintenance. My sales averaged over $850K per transaction with a 22% annual maintenance fee. One of the big issues for enterprise companies buying perpetual licenses was that maintenance continued even for products you didnt use (shelf-ware). At Oracle Safra Catz the co-CEO once said in a earnings call that Oracle could stop selling everything and still be profitable for over 12 years. This was in 2013. It is not true now. Other companies have been pushing the subscription based pricing model which has been successful two reasons - one is you can put those purchases to reduce capex (capital expenditures) which are handled tax-wise with depreciations etc. A subscription based license isn't because they never own the software (only renting it). The second is it a limited time contract (usually 1 to 3 years). In theory if you dont like the software you can stop your contract at the end of it (you owe all the money of the contract regardless if you use it or not) and switch to another product. This is bullshit because the implementation cost of a major software program is 5x the cost of software if it is perpetual and 50x if it is subscription. That is because if my average sale was $850k for a perpetual license it was more like 1/10 that for a subscription per year. So a company isn't going to changes its accounting system (called ERP), marketing, etc without a great deal of thought. For example when Disney decided to go to a single ERP program for the 63 divisions and companies it owned the software cost was $550M. The implementation cost for just the 1st phase (getting the basics out there) was $2.5B.. There were over 450 very highly paid consultants working at a building on Flower street in Burbank who work on a 24/7 schedule for 18 months to deliver phase 1. So the total cost was over $3B. Some of these functions are now done thru subscription based solutions but there is no way they are going to spend billions to change all of it.

All of these same thoughts apply to consumer software. You can either sell a perpetual license (but almost never with support fee) that when you put out a major release you will offer old users an upgrade price and for new users it is a new purchase. Companies like On1 Raw 2018 have further added to their maintenance stream by offering 'plus' models where you get the software updates as part of the fee plus lots of extras like classes, pre-sets, etc. Where this model has been at issue with lots of photographers is when the major releases happen too often. This is especially true if the software is deemed not ready for release by the users. Both On1 Raw 2018 and Luminar ran into this where people felt they were getting the value they had paid for and werent ready to purchase it again. On1 Raw 2018 has successfully managed to get them out of the quagmire in my opinion by opening admitting to issues then fixing them. Luminar didn't but has gotten the 2018 release out which works for Macs at least. But they have lost my faith in them by some pretty questionable acts on their FaceBook groups.

The other side of the coin is subscription based license with Adobe being in the forefront. Someone said they are making more money this way but from their fiscal reports that certainly is not true yet. A couple of reasons for that are if perpetual licenses are priced correctly they should be about 10x higher than a subscription product. If you could still purchase LightRoom and PhotoShop as perpetual licenses you would have had a cost of about $800. Those products released new major versions on a 18 to 24 month schedule so the cost if you were looking at 5 years of TCO (Total cost of Ownership) with 18 month schedules it would cost you about $1600 ($800 initial, and 2 upgrades at 50% of List or $400 each). For subscription you would pay 5x$120 or $600. Adobe makes less revenue selling subscription per license so it has to increase volume. Thus CC.. aimed at a market not shared by the members of this forum - casual photographers using cell phones. Honestly I dont see this working as there are too many choices at much better pricing than $120 like Affinity etc. Plus i feel LightRoom and PhotoShop are way to complex for most casual users. They might try it but quickly decide it is too difficult to use. So what have they done - alienated a number of users like me by their pricing. I dont use PhotoShop and $120 a year is too high for LightRoom in my mind. So I moved away and initially have spent that money on On1 Raw 2018 and Luminar. And while the professional users here might be willing to spend big bucks that market is so small it means almost nothing to a company like Adobe. On1 Raw 2018, MacPhun and the other independent companies have to succeed with that market or they will be toast like Nik and Aperature as there is NO pricing model that works unless they gather a larger market. MacPhun may do this because I feel it is a bit more user-friendly than other apps but has to get its support and R&D under control. On1 Raw 2018 in my mind is the best replacement for LightRoom but honestly if Adobe offered a subscription plan for just LightRoom I would probably go back to it and use the others as plugins for specific functions. Subscription pricing will not work for the smaller companies as there isn't enough revenue to support it unless they owned a large share of the users out their like 25% or higher. Pretty much impossible when there are apps like PhotoShop elements, Corel, Affinity, etc with market shares already.
LAUGHS.. Most of this profit is not from software ... (show quote)

I was more trying to explain how a corporation works than the business plan they have adopted. Probably not very well. If $10 per month is too much then use the freeware that’s out there. I wish my cameras were that cheap, or I could spend $10 and be updated to the newest model. Are you listening Canon?

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