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Jul 17, 2017 11:22:51   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
jenny wrote:
* * * * *
Quite simply then, if the sunset was to the left then that's where the lightest part of the sky would be.
Also, you lightened the rocks.
You manipulated the picture into what you wished it could be, which is not camera work but processing
into something that couldn't be possible.

Some of us record nature as it is.

Others choose to "improve" by imposing their own design.
The OP should even feel free to "go Picasso" - put just one eye and a couple of arms on a person's head.
That is fine.
There should be room for both of us, so I have nothing further to say.

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Jul 17, 2017 11:26:20   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
rehess wrote:
Some of us record nature as it is.

Others choose to "improve" by imposing their own design.
The OP should even feel free to "go Picasso" - put just one eye and a couple of arms on a person's head.
That is fine.
There should be room for both of us, so I have nothing further to say.




...As long as you're not doing it in a forum where accuracy is required, manipulate to your heart's content!

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Jul 17, 2017 11:31:51   #
Bill Hancock Loc: Wausau, WI
 
I like the way you felt! Great image!

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Jul 17, 2017 11:39:09   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
burkphoto wrote:
SOOC does not have to be "on autopilot... solely by computer with no one at the controls."...

Very well explained, as usual. I surely just don't let any autopilot at the SOOC controls. I change any number of the settings you list for just about every situation. I was implying that once the shutter is pressed for the in-camera JPEG, the computer takes over from there, even if I do make minor adjustments with the compressed image afterwards. I also save the RAW for those few times I can't get the SOOC to do what I was attempting to pre-visualize at the time. For my amateur work, though, adjusting the SOOC controls is usually adequate.

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Jul 17, 2017 12:29:26   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Retina wrote:
Very well explained, as usual. I surely just don't let any autopilot at the SOOC controls. I change any number of the settings you list for just about every situation. I was implying that once the shutter is pressed for the in-camera JPEG, the computer takes over from there, even if I do make minor adjustments with the compressed image afterwards. I also save the RAW for those few times I can't get the SOOC to do what I was attempting to pre-visualize at the time. For my amateur work, though, adjusting the SOOC controls is usually adequate.
Very well explained, as usual. I surely just don't... (show quote)




Yeah, that's the key, to do all you can with the camera controls, and make minor adjustments later. As I used to tell my students, the paradox of JPEG digital exposure is that the closer to perfect you make your choices at the camera, the MORE latitude you have to adjust it in post-production. So the game becomes one of spending time at the camera IF time is available to spend there, vs working with raw files and spending time at the computer. Sometimes, saving both files to hedge your bets is the best choice.

The dirty little secret of getting the most out of JPEGs is to use a non-destructive editor that displays proxy images, saves all your changes to a database, then applies them only at print time or export time. That way, the original JPEG is just decompressed one time, to an internal bitmap that is altered in RAM and sent to your printer driver. Adobe Lightroom and Kodak Alaris DP2 Digital Print Production Software (used in high-end pro portrait photo labs) are two examples I've used. As long as you make your prints from the same computer or server that the catalog or database is running from, there is absolute minimal image degradation. (Saving the JPEG as a 16-bit TIFF avoids degradation in the same manner.)

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Jul 17, 2017 12:33:16   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
jenny wrote:
* * * * *
Quite simply then, if the sunset was to the left then that's where the lightest part of the sky would be.
Also, you lightened the rocks.
You manipulated the picture into what you wished it could be, which is not camera work but processing
into something that couldn't be possible.


So? It looks exactly the way I want to look.

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Jul 17, 2017 12:49:41   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
rehess wrote:
Some of us record nature as it is.

Nobody can actually do that with any known camera. A camera is not the replicator in a Star Trek movie.

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Jul 17, 2017 15:06:38   #
jenny Loc: in hiding:)
 
CaptainC wrote:
So? It looks exactly the way I want to look.

* * * * *
Congratulations. To paraphrase a bit, "you must have a good photo processor".

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Jul 17, 2017 15:15:13   #
CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver
 
jenny wrote:
* * * * *
Congratulations. To paraphrase a bit, "you must have a good photo processor".


Well...there is a lot of truth to that.

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Jul 17, 2017 17:40:20   #
Doddy Loc: Barnard Castle-England
 
Superb..

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Jul 17, 2017 17:48:45   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
CaptainC wrote:
Well...there is a lot of truth to that.




And that "processor" is the guy named CaptainC. A genuine accomplishment of significant merit! (A much better feat than these claims of "I can't so you sbouldn't.")

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Jul 17, 2017 17:53:46   #
rlaugh Loc: Michigan & Florida
 
Apaflo wrote:


And that "processor" is the guy named CaptainC. A genuine accomplishment of significant merit! (A much better feat than these claims of "I can't so you sbouldn't.")



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Jul 17, 2017 18:00:27   #
lmTrying Loc: WV Northern Panhandle
 
burkphoto wrote:
SOOC does not have to be "on autopilot... solely by computer with no one at the controls."

There is a concept that professionals often use called "pre-processing." It involves mentally analyzing a scene, making careful light readings, then setting all of the camera's menu settings to process a JPEG as best as it can be processed with the tools available in the camera, and with white balance tools used with the camera white balance and exposure tools.

There may be an infinite range of control with raw image processing software, but there are quite a lot of controls in the camera, many with fine adjustments:

Exposure:

ISO
Shutter Speed
Aperture
Auto Bracket
Auto HDR on some models
Metering Modes and Metering Sensor Location Selection
Exposure Compensation

White Balance:

Custom White Balance (using a reference target or filter)
Kelvin Temperature setting
Pre-sets (Daylight, Flash, Fluorescent, Cloudy, Shade, Incandescent...)

ICC Profile (sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998)

Picture Style or Photo Style (Standard, Vivid, Neutral or Natural, Landscape or Scenery, Portrait, Monochrome, Cinelike V, Cinelike D, Custom...)

Sharpness
Noise Reduction
Saturation
Contrast
Color Tone
Hue
Filter Effect (for B&W or monochrome only — simulates red, yellow, orange, green filters...)

Knowledgeable professionals and advanced amateurs know how to use these controls to match scene conditions fairly accurately. Some photojournalists have to rely on them, because they submit their work to agencies that do not allow the use of raw image capture (to ensure a LACK of image retouching or manipulation, i.e.; to ensure authenticity). Law enforcement officers documenting crime scenes generally work in JPEG mode for the same reasons. School portrait photographers and many other professional studio photographers use JPEG mode because their huge labs have nearly 100% JPEG workflows, and they are using precisely controlled studio lighting, exposure, and white balance.

The reality is that both raw and JPEG workflows are perfectly valid and perfectly acceptable — in different scenarios. There is a time and a place for each. Each may be inferior to the other (or impractical or infeasible) in certain circumstances. JPEG capture DOES NOT have to imply "surrender to the computer," as so many sheep have been led to believe by the YouTube pied pipers of raw.

All that said, given a scene such as the OP displayed, I'd certainly use raw capture. It makes manipulations like he displayed MUCH easier.
SOOC does not have to be "on autopilot... sol... (show quote)


Please, help me, and maybe some others. I was under the impression that "Auto Bracket" and "Exposure Compensation" were similar terms for the same concept. I realize that your photographic knowledge is much deeper that mine, I see that in your answers, of which I have read many. So will you please explain what each term means.
Thank you in advance.

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Jul 17, 2017 18:06:18   #
OutBack Loc: North Central Florida
 
They have gripped about PS in'; don't ask me who they are, it's yours - do as you please!

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Jul 17, 2017 18:15:58   #
Nosaj Loc: Sarasota, Florida
 
CaptainC wrote:
WE often see posts extolling the virtues "straight from the camera" and why post processing is evil - or at least not pure. Just going back over some images from Monument Valley from a few years ago and figured this blah image could use some help. The top one IS more accurate - the bottom one is what I felt.

Looking quite good. The best part of the camera is the 3-inch space in front of the eye piece.

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