bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

You only say that, because she danced with you while I got my test shots.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I think most make this way to complicated ....

As I've mentioned before my tried and true method is to use 3 speed lights. 2 are off-camera pointed at each other and slightly downward, I typically like to space 100 feet apart if possible, mounted on stands hopefully at 13 feet if the room is tall enough or if outdoors. Depending on where I'm standing one is a key light and the other is a kicker, another words I stand 25 - 35 degrees off angle from one light which them becomes the key while the other off-camera becomes the kicker. If you move to the other side of the room the lights switched places again one being the key the other the kicker. To stay consistent I will set both on manual power somewhere between 1/4 power and 1/16 power (depending on ambient light), bare bulb with the zoom setting on the flash set to 85mm - 105mm. I then use a modifier (super scoop)on my on-camera flash which places the light source well above the lens. The on-camera flash is set to ETTL -1.5 FEC and is used for the fill. I stick to a prime lens so the ratios don't change much, usually a 50mm 1.4 lens set to f/5.6. My legs are the zoom ;)

Typically my settings are 1/180, f/5.6, ISO-1250

Once I have it dialed in it's pretty easy to just walk around and fire away.

You get results like this ...

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Thanks, very nice result Beercat. I have been using a light scoop in place of a flash bracket for a couple years. At 6' I lose a little more than 3 stops of light with it, So it's good for up close, esp if bounce is available,...but I have to go to full power at 6'to get f/8, or 11' for ƒ/5.6.
So Outside, evenings, groups, dancefloors etc, have been my problem...need more power, so I generally switch it off and only use the off camera light. But I have always tried to limit ISO to 400 or below due to noise. I haven't tried your higher ISO's yet.
As far as making this way to complicated, I think I resemble that remark!
I see you are from the central coast.... those wedding examples I posted are from Cayucos beach... north of Morro bay. Anywhere near you?
What size light scoop do you prefer? Do you usually use a 50mm so you can stay close? Or with the high ISO's, can you get back 15' or so for a Family shot?

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I use a Super Scoop, the largest one. David Ziser a well known wedding photographer will us a small white reflector typically at -1.5 FEC. He uses 2 off camera flashes as I do, in fact I learned it from him. As I use a Super Scoop I find myself typically at -1 FEC when I'm using the 50mm and 0 FEC if I'm using the 85mm and getting back a bit more. I find the scoop useless over 25' away so 50mm is usually up close maybe 10 - 15 feet away, the 85mm I'm at 20 - 25 feet away. Both my 50mm and 85mm have a sweet spot at 5.6 - 8.0 so I try and stay within those apertures when possible. Remember the off-camera flash once dialed in does not change, the ambient light made by the off-camera flash is constant, it is the key to good reception lighting, the on-camera is strictly for a bit of fill.

The higher ISO is to let your flash units re-cycle faster and go the whole evening without a battery change. If I go to F/11 the flash units would be more at 1/4 - full power which takes more time for the re-cycle and uses a bunch of power. I use a 6D which by DXO standards has a clean ISO rating of 2400, meaning if you nail the exposure there should be little need for noise reduction.

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Thanks Beercat! Thats really good to know.
The reason distance was a concern, is I am using a full frame 5dmkII. One of the big advantages I like of the full frame, is when I am concerned about enough DOF for say a group shot at f/2.8-f/4 (low light). I back up, increasing my DOF, and I know I can crop off 1/2 of that shot and still have 12mb to work with. But my light scoop isn't much use.
I can see where the higher ISO would be a big advantage on Light output, aperture size and shutter if needed. And I really like how you and Ed are controlling the ambient, Main & kicker around the venue. Those darn Dj strobes tear me up!
Thanks again!

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

The 6D is a bit more forgiving in the higher ISO's, around 1/3 of a stop but in reality if you nail the exposure the higher ISO won't be effected near as much. I've gone to ISO-5000 and had decent results but my exposure was spot on, if anything it's better to be slightly 'hot' when you shoot high ISO.

Generally I won't go under f/2.8 on a single or a couple, preferably f/5.6. Group shots I don't like going under F/5.6 and prefer 6.3 - 7.1

Interestingly the photo I uploaded was with a dragging shutter at 1/60, f/7.1, ISO-2500. When I drag the shutter I always shoot for -2 to -2.5 on my exposure and then let the off-camera flash do there thing. It's risky to drag the shutter on a dance unless you taken the exposure into account and know the flash will do it's duty and freeze the subjects.

Here is another taken at 1/60, F/7.1, ISO-2500 .... one of my favorites

(Download)

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

In hindsight I should I gone to 1/125, F/5.6, ISO-2500 and slightly increased my manual power on the off-camera speed lights but as we all know things happen quickly plus I was shooting video as well with another camera.

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Great example.
I'm really surprised (from my exp),that your TTL fill did such a great job on her dress and his jacket.
Knowing your camera is doing the metering for the flash, do you purposely expose on the brights-say the dress, or the darks? Or do you just expose for the face and let it go?
I would love to get consistent results like that.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I hate to admit it, but I wonder if that isn't something that Canon does better. I can't ever get consistent results with TTL, whether using Nikon flashes, or any of my off camera arsenal. I just have to stick with manual to be consistent.

If my ttl shots came out like Jerry's. I'd be all over it. Unfortunately, mine will vary widely in exposure, and time is money when it comes to editing, so I prefer to have it consistent on the front end, so I don't have to do exposure correction on each photo.

Normally, I don't have anything bad to say about a particular brand, and I'm not "in love" with Nikon, it's just what I have. They all have their good points. I just find that Nikon's iTTL isn't consistent enough for me (personally).... so please, other Nikon shooters, don't shoot me for my opinion.

bk

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Haha, well said :)
Thanks for the tips!

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I expose for the dress ... some of these cost upwards to $2500 - $5000, you better have the detail intact ...

Well were both Canon shooters, feel sorry for those that use boat anchors :)

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Oh boy, grab your helmet :)

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I have a 12 day assignment/event coming up in July. I'll have lots of opportunity to give ETTL multi off-camera flash a good try. I'll share what I find out once I return. Gleaned a few more ideas from a guy who teaches the use of multi speed lights for Canon. Looking forward to the results.

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

I would be very interested!

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

I would be interested in hearing what you come up with, even though I use Nikon. I know others swear by TTL, so I'm not claiming to be right here. It could certainly be operator err on my part. Wouldn't be the first time. I am VERY resistant to change.

Here's a good on for you. This weekend, fully armed with my new, large size Flash bender based on your stellar review, I was going to try the off the TTL method you had described. Was going to follow your formula to the "T" to see if maybe it's just been a combination of things.

Well.......The area for the dance floor was in a room about the size of a 2 car garage, and the DJ's "booth" took up "1 car's worth" of space. I ended up doing everything with the flash bender. I did like the softer quality of the light, and was able to use it as a snoot for some things. All in all, it was much better than my old home made version, but I wasn't able to try any of the off camera lighting stuff.