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The END of pro photography??
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Aug 22, 2015 17:01:15   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Shutter Bugger wrote:
One day you may just walk in front of the wrong man.


:lol: :lol: Yes, he has not walked in front of ME yet!!
I'm not that tall, and could always use something to stand on top of!!!
I'm sure I'm not the only one! :lol: :lol:
SS

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Aug 22, 2015 17:13:11   #
btbg
 
Much of what JosephSF says is true. I know "professional" photographers whose work doesn't have nearly the quality of some "amateurs". The line between the two is small.

Some "professionals" believe that they know it all and don't continue to grow as photographers. Some amateurs are students of the craft and produce consistently excellent photos.

Labels don't mean anything today. It isn't whether you are a pro or not that matters. It's can you consistently produce the necessary photo or photos.

Newspapers routinely use amateurs for some of their photography. Sometimes with results that rival or surpass their staff photographers.

With that said there is no need to be rude or jump in front of people. That goes for both the professionals and the amateurs.

The place I see it most is shooting photos of teams with trophies after winning state championships. For most of the game or match only those with press passes are allowed on the floor. Then as the trophies are presented parents pour onto the floor and run in front of the professionals to get a photo of their son or daughter.

The irony of the whole thing is once they have run in front they are too close and can't get the whole team in the photo. Two or three weeks after the event I will get e-mails asking if I have a team photo that they can have.

the thread on landscape photo etiquette also says a lot about some of the challenges photographers are now facing. Both amateurs and professionals will rudely jump in front of others to "get the shot" when there is usually room for everyone if they are just courteous.

Still if the mass of photographers get in the way I may indeed have to be rude at a critical point in the action. I'm being paid to produce sports photos of the key moments in the action. If someone is in the way I will try to move to a new location, but the demand to get the photo still exists.

That's why I try to be friendly to photographers around me and find out what team or individuals they are shooting and what they are shooting it for. that way we can try to work together so that all of us can get the photos that we need.

That way everyone has a good experience and goes away happy. Unfortunately some photographers both amateur and professional don't care about everyone else. When that happens, then you have no choice and have to be pushier.

In some ways the original post is right, there are some areas of professional photography that are shrinking. For example several large newspapers in the U.S. have significantly cut their photography staff and the Detroit newspaper has completely eliminated staff photographers.

However, professional photography is alive and well. And with social media and the web the amount of exposure a photographer can get worldwide is unlimited. with increased exposure comes increased opportunity for sales. It's a big world out there and if your work is good enough and your marketing skills are there the sky is the limit.

There is a lot more competition. There are whole industries that are less willing to pay than in the past. A co-worker was recently asked by National Geographic if they could use one of his photos for free. He finally got $125 out of them. However, there are market opportunities that just 10 years ago we could only dream of. Professional photography is alive and well, and will be for the foreseeable future.

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Aug 22, 2015 18:11:52   #
Shutter Bugger
 
SharpShooter wrote:
:lol: :lol: Yes, he has not walked in front of ME yet!!
I'm not that tall, and could always use something to stand on top of!!!
I'm sure I'm not the only one! :lol: :lol:
SS


Team up.

I'm only 5' 10", but I studied a very nasty marshal art.
Together we could teach
the fat thug that barges in front a lesson. :thumbup:

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Aug 22, 2015 18:52:06   #
wlgoode Loc: Globe, AZ
 
camerapapi wrote:
Although there is a plethora of amateur photographers out there doing all kind of jobs, especially "wedding" photographers I tell you there is no substitute for a professional.


Get there early for the "Golden Hour" and beat the crowd of amateurs. That hour makes us the pros!

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Aug 22, 2015 19:47:33   #
Don Fischer Loc: Antelope, Ore
 
I think the problem isn't that it's going away, it's not. The well to do will still lay out a ton of money for wedding photographer's. Those that have charged high prices to people that couldn't afford them in the first place, will likely go away. There is a flood of armature's running around that can do a very nice job and will do it for a whole lot less. In any profession there is work for only so many top people. Photography is no different.

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Aug 22, 2015 21:25:11   #
prossiter Loc: Newfoundland. Canada
 
[quote=pdsdville] I'm a GWC and have 60 or so awards at local, state, and international levels. I guess I'm an advanced GWC. I study photography for my own pleasure, taking classes, seminars, and reading in my spare time. I'm out shooting several times a week to hone my skills. I probably have 10K worth of equipment, none really fancy but the best quality I could afford.quote]

I would not call you a GWC. A GWC is some person who gets a DSLR or a bridge camera and on the first day they use it, on automatic, see that their pictures are exposed properly and in focus says to him self, "I can make some money at this." You are an amateur photographer, the operative word being "photographer". Whether you are a pro or an amateur a PHOTOGRAPHER is a person who creates photographs, they do not take photographs. A PHOTOGRAPHER can shoot 10 frames and gets 10 good photographs and says I can do better the next time. A GWC shoots 1000 frames, gets maybe 10 good ones and thinks I got this down pat.

Here is how I see the difference. The pro must practice to produce good images on demand. An amateur practices to be able to produce good images when they desire. A GWC (or MWAC) don't need to practice because they think they are good enough.

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Aug 22, 2015 21:38:04   #
prossiter Loc: Newfoundland. Canada
 
lightchime wrote:
Les look at your rhetorical question a bit differently. No matter what level of skill a professional possesses, he is a surrogate for someone who is paying him. Why should he have any expectations that he is more important than those of the "mob". This may be appropriate for a wedding where he is hired by someone who is paying for an event. As a general statement, however, why should a professional have any preference not offered by anything but his own sense of arrogance and entitlement.
Les look at your rhetorical question a bit differe... (show quote)


All Pros are being paid by someone. That's why they are pros. I did my first "pro" gig at age 16, for a local radio station. When they called me I said I wasn't a pro. They asked me if I wanted the gig. When I said yes the manager said, "Now you're a pro."

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Aug 22, 2015 23:02:59   #
neilds37 Loc: Port Angeles, WA
 
I recently had to attend a wedding (weddings and funerals are something I avoid whenever possible). A good part of the attendees had never seen me without my camera on a sling. I left it home. The professional hired to shoot the wedding was all over the place until the bitter end. I'm sure his photos will be cherished for years to come.

The last time I looked at my wedding photos...Never, the photographer passed out drunk. Not a Pro. A family member.

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Aug 22, 2015 23:39:08   #
BigGWells Loc: Olympia, WA
 
Many facets of photography is changing, big time. If you are not able to find a niche, most likely you are not going to able to make any kind of living. I have a friend who has been shooting drag racing for over 50 years, has always done very well. This is his last year, he says he can no longer make it work. He says the same thing a lot of photographers say "buy a camera at Costco on Saturday, on Monday your a wedding photographer" NHRA is looking at ways of cracking down on photos taken at their events. Times they are a changing. The public is clueless when it comes to paying attention to pro's, it's all about themselves. I have had people stand right in front me as I was composing a shot, if you say anything they take offense.

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Aug 22, 2015 23:45:42   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
This was an incredible good reply.

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Aug 23, 2015 00:02:52   #
bkellyusa Loc: Nashville, TN
 
We must be brothers somehow. I love photography and make every effort to increase my skill at it though I have absolutely no interest in going pro. I've just retired but I did play the guitar professionally for decades but for the most part I never concerned myself with the status of my career but only in making music. I think you meant bicycles so my lifelong love for riding motorcycling may be a little different but close.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing your views.
JosephSF wrote:
I find the find the various perspectives and opinions on “Professional photographers vs. GWC” interesting. I am not sure why there is such a fissure about it though. It does become an emotional issue for some maybe because it is indicative of the narrowing or bridging in the ability to create quality images, both artistic and editorial, that can be attained by “amateurs”. There are remarkable tools and technologies that are now readily available that help automate and guide novice enthusiasts in the complexities of the exposure triangle, editing in post, and finding an audience to share their work. As recent as 20 years ago there was a much higher barrier to entry in creating images that could be monetized through a commercial transaction. That barrier existed not only because of the cost associated of professional grade film cameras and high quality processing, but with the knowledge, patience, experience and passion required to really excel in the craft. The process of creating images was not validated through instant gratification but by perfecting many individual tasks in the value chain. Artistry and creativity as well as technical knowledge were required to consistently produce high quality images in the volume and velocity required to make it a vocation - to make your living from it.

I am not a professional photographer and never will be. But I love photography. I work at it, I study it, I practice it and more often than not I fail at it. I will never make a dime by selling any of my images, but like everything else I pursue in my life, I really want to get good at it. I will never be on the stage at the Warfield playing guitar, but I have invested in very high quality instruments and take lessons because I love music. I will never be in the Tour de France but I am an avid cyclist and continually want to improve. I doubt very highly that Eric Clapton or Chris Froome hold any animus towards me (or any amateur) for trying to gain proficiency in their vocations that have made them millionaires. It’s just about trying to do your best in everything you attempt, whether it is your career or your hobby. Luckily, I am good enough at my job to provide the resources needed to allow me to pursue some hobbies.

It probably will be harder to make a living in the future by creating and selling images. Modern technology has relegated centuries old staples like newspapers and magazines to be essentially obsolete. Content is provided to a larger audience through omni-channel digital distribution. Modern manufacturing processes have all but eliminated specialized building crafts. There are many software tools available that can make a novice look like a professional web developer. The examples of technology displacing craftsmen are vast. There are many lost arts due to technology innovation and automation. The UHH is a good example of social media that can be used to widely disseminate ideas and principles that were once shared by a much more narrow audience. This share economy has done as much to level the output of professionals and non-professionals as has photographic technology. I do believe, however, that truly creative, dedicated and hard working individuals can separate themselves from the masses with cameras and provide products that can be of very high value. We are now in a share economy but artistry and creativity will always be coveted.

Now for the question of rudeness and narcissism in our culture, I am always hopeful that civility and manners will prevail. The outlook doesn’t look good though.
I find the find the various perspectives and opini... (show quote)

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Aug 23, 2015 02:26:08   #
charles brown Loc: Tennesse
 
JD328i wrote:
Funny you mention that. I just looked through our wedding album about a week ago. The only reason I did was it was our anniversary and I got it out to show our daughter who was heading back to college. One thing I did notice is the quality of the pictures are far below what can be produced by today's pros with current equipment. I just couldn't figure out who all the young people were in the album.


Yes, but you had an album to look at. Just ask most people today to look at their family album and see what happens. I've had the same problem. My solution: get the wife to write on the back the names of everyone in the picture. :lol:

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Aug 23, 2015 02:30:43   #
charles brown Loc: Tennesse
 
"This share economy has done as much to level the output of professionals and non-professionals as has photographic technology. I do believe, however, that truly creative, dedicated and hard working individuals can separate themselves from the masses with cameras and provide products that can be of very high value. We are now in a share economy but artistry and creativity will always be coveted.

Now for the question of rudeness and narcissism in our culture, I am always hopeful that civility and manners will prevail. The outlook doesn’t look good though."

Well said.

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Aug 23, 2015 03:40:58   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
wlgoode wrote:
Get there early for the "Golden Hour" and beat the crowd of amateurs. That hour makes us the pros!


wl, the Golden Hour is where the masses are!
What makes a real pro a pro is the hour after that...., the Blue Hour. That's after all the amateurs and wanna-be pros have ALL GONE HOME!!! :lol:
SS

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Aug 23, 2015 03:44:19   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Shutter Bugger wrote:
Team up.

I'm only 5' 10", but I studied a very nasty marshal art.
Together we could teach
the fat thug that barges in front a lesson. :thumbup:


Bugger, Don't worry, I can take care of that big guy by myself...., but I will take you up on that offer, just in case he's got a half a dozen FRIENDS!!! :lol: :lol:
SS

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