inexpensive leica m10 from europe on eBay (Page 2): Maybe theres no evil scammers behind such sucker offers. Maybe ebay actually makes them up to spice up their site. It gives the...

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mort wrote:

i am not really asking for advice , i am just wondering why eBay accepts these sellers . if they return the buyers
money , has the scammer been paid and does eBay or paypal loose the money ?

Maybe theres no evil scammers behind such sucker offers. Maybe ebay actually makes them up to spice up their site. It gives the forums and chat rooms fodder for indignant discussions that can go on for miles and miles of screen space, but "there is no such thing as bad publicity" (very true, but only in the loooong run).

Ioannis

mort wrote:

seems there are eBay listings for leica m10s at unbelievable low prices . has anyone bid and received one of these cameras ? if these are all scams , and eBay or paypal returns your money , does the scammer get paid , and who loses the money ? i have purchased a lot on eBay and not received a few items and been refunded , but i have never sold , so i don't know how that works .

Scammers are everywhere, I used PayPall to purchase an item not long ago from an advertisement on Facebook. I had a filling it was a scam, a 55” tv for $70.00 plus $20.00 shipping, but I was looking for trouble. A month later I received a usps notice the tv was delivered and left at my front door, but to wrong address, I check through the tracking number and what was delivered to that address (not disclosed to me) it was an envelope about 5 oz. It took me about two weeks to get my money back from PayPall because they were short of help due to Pandemic. I can only say just like everyone else, do business with a reliable source.

mort Loc: california

MDI Mainer wrote:

I think the OP was aware this $200 listing was a scam. He just wanted to know who gets left holding the snipe bag.

thanks for understanding my question . i just don't understand why eBay would continue to allow these listings .

MrPhotog

mort wrote:

thanks for understanding my question . i just don't understand why eBay would continue to allow these listings .

There are so many postings each hour that I imagine it is difficult for eBay to police them all.

If the only odd thing is an extremely low price it might easily slip under their RADAR

You might want to alert them to a possible scam.

MDI Mainer

MrPhotog wrote:

There are so many postings each hour that I imagine it is difficult for eBay to police them all.

If the only odd thing is an extremely low price it might easily slip under their RADAR

You might want to alert them to a possible scam.

We can focus on the few listings that might peak our interest, not so eBay. I do know that eBay will remove (at least until they pop up under a new name) vendors who cannot or will not deliver the advertised goods, since they have done so at my behest. I imagine they treat the insurance losses attributable to compensating disappointed buyers as just another cost of doing business. Their entire business model depends on maintaining buyer trust.

stevefrankel

I would not consider buying a Leica from anywhere but in the U.S. I bought a Leica CL kit from someone here in LA via eBay and a fantastic Leica lens from a Leica dealer in Colorado who had advertised it on eBay. I've concluded that domestic Leica sellers are among the best people from which to buy gear, but I wouldn't buy gear from anyone overseas.

stevefrankel

I would not consider buying a Leica from anywhere but in the U.S. I bought a Leica CL kit from someone here in LA via eBay and a fantastic Leica lens from a Leica dealer in Colorado who had advertised it on eBay. I've concluded that domestic Leica sellers are among the best people from which to buy gear, but I wouldn't buy gear from anyone overseas.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

kmielen wrote:

I see that listing. M10 for $200 plus $400 shipping.

Yes, sellers sometimes do that. I've seen the same product from the same seller on eBay selling for different prices with different shipping charges. $25 with free shipping, $5.00 with $20.00 shipping, etc.

As you might know, eBay generates a shipping price. I don't know if you have to use that figure, but I can see it being a problem. They say it will cost $10, but the post office says it will cost $20. It's all about size, weight, and distance. I would figure the cost of sending the package from NY to CA. If someone in NY buys it, then I'd reduce the shipping cost accordingly.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

If you return for a refund on eBay, there is no refund on the shipping, correct? So this becomes a way to guarantee pocketing about $380 for nothing.

BlackRipleyDog

Scammers prey on everyone's tendency to let FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out), override their gut instinct. And they are successful 90+% of the time.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

larryepage wrote:

If you return for a refund on eBay, there is no refund on the shipping, correct? So this becomes a way to guarantee pocketing about $380 for nothing.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

I once saw a site selling "free" goods. You paid for the item and the shipping, and then you got a rebate for the cost of the product. Clever idea. I thought I'd give it a try with some cheap items. I bought a Swiss army type of knife and a couple of other things. Sure enough, I got rebates for everything. I still had to pay the shipping charge, but it was less that I would have had to pay for the items. I suspect that I would miss out on the rebate if I had kept ordering from them.

For me, "Free Shipping" often makes the difference between buying and not buying.

MDI Mainer

larryepage wrote:

If you return for a refund on eBay, there is no refund on the shipping, correct? So this becomes a way to guarantee pocketing about $380 for nothing.

I do not believe this is correct; these cases are different than "remorse" returns. With certain exceptions and subject to eBay's determination in a given case:

If you do not receive the item you get a full refund, including shipping:

If the item doesn't arrive at the address provided by the buyer at checkout or isn't made available for collection, the buyer is entitled to a full refund, including original shipping costs (if applicable).

Likewise for a defective item or an item which does not conform to the description:

If we determine that the seller did not meet their return requirements:

The buyer will receive a refund for the full cost of the item and original shipping.

This refund requirement will supersede any "no returns" policy of the seller.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210#actions-snad

mort Loc: california

MDI Mainer wrote:

I do not believe this is correct; these cases are ... (show quote)

since i have never sold on eBay , i don't know how the seller receives payment . i have received refunds on a few items , some from the seller and some from paypal or eBay . i have never lost any money . i bid on a $3000 m10
from europe that did not arrive in the specified time , and the seller did not respond , and my money was
returned . a month or so later i received a package of noodles from the seller . i am just wondering if the seller
in this scam got any money ? is money withheld from the seller for a peroid of time ? there are many of these inexpensive leica listings by new sellers from europe . if eBay loses money , why do the continue the listings ?
if scammers don't profit from these scams , why do they continue ?

flip1948 Loc: Hamden, CT

jerryc41 wrote:

Yes, sellers sometimes do that. I've seen the sam... (show quote)

eBay considers this type of listing, $200 with a $400 shipping charge to be fee avoidance since eBay does not get a cut of the shipping charge.

One way to get such a listing removed is to report it to eBay's "safeharbor" investigative unit. I believe the direct e-mail address is "spoof@ebay.com" unless they have changed it. I believe you could also use "safeharbor@ebay.com". It's been a long time since I last contacted them, but there may also be a link on each auction page now to directly report an auction. Report it as suspected fee avoidance. eBay does not like to be cheated out of their cut.

They may also suspend the seller if they find a pattern. When I was a coin collector dealing with eBay we used to call such a suspension as being NARU'ed as "not a registered user" would appear after your user name in parentheses once the suspension was in place.

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

mort wrote:

seems there are eBay listings for leica m10s at unbelievable low prices . has anyone bid and received one of these cameras ? if these are all scams , and eBay or paypal returns your money , does the scammer get paid , and who loses the money ? i have purchased a lot on eBay and not received a few items and been refunded , but i have never sold , so i don't know how that works .

Once upon a time (@40 years ago) I bought a similar thang.
Still got it.
I was the highest bidder ($50, total) for a redone Fed2.
Yes, I knew what it was first- I already had one. A "Submariner".
The ways the laws are, I can call my garage "Leica".
Redo some old Canons. Stick on a similar but-not-identical sticker.
And goto work for maybe 6 months.