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The Challenge of Manual Exposure
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Sep 16, 2021 16:14:09   #
Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.
 
selmslie wrote:
Sorry but that's wrong on both counts. Sunny 16 is not significantly affected by season or altitude for the first two miles above sea level (more than 10,000 feet). That's higher than we can go and breath without an oxygen tank.

To learn more about this take a look at Effect of Direct Sunlight on Photographic Exposure.

The seasons and time of day can attenuate the sunlight if it comes in at an angle, the sharper the angle the more air it needs to pass through. When the sun drops to about 30° from the horizon the light is blocked by about 1/3 stop, not enough to make much difference.
Sorry but that's wrong on both counts. Sunny 16 i... (show quote)


So much sophistry.

I'm in an airplane at 10,000 feet making cloud images. I do not have an oxygen mask on but the cabin is pressurized. I'm making images of the clouds, so I need to know the exposure and have indeed know the exposure and made such images at 10,000 feet. So please do your photographs and I will make mine and they have come out just fine.

Now a minor project for you this winter based in the quote "can attenuate the sunlight", If you will. Secure the minus filter Wratten No.12 (not the Wratten #15), place the filter atop a polarizer on any lens you choose, it matters not if the polarizer is linear or circular, fully polarize the image and shoot through the combined filters. Then make additional images with polarizer reduced by any amount you wish. The fully polarized and Wratten #12 will exhibit the effect of reducing contrast and open superior detail in all the shadowed areas with in the view. This is a good demonstration of this "can attenuate the sunlight" effect but it can not give one the sense of wonder that full attenuation of sunlight in a scene.

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Sep 16, 2021 16:25:02   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Timmers wrote:
So much sophistry.

I'm in an airplane at 10,000 feet making cloud images. I do not have an oxygen mask on but the cabin is pressurized. I'm making images of the clouds, so I need to know the exposure ...

Did you personally clean the windows and polish out all of the scratches?

That's probably the silliest retort I have ever seen.

I take it that you did not understand the article - over your head - or were afraid to look at it.

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Sep 16, 2021 16:48:29   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
quixdraw wrote:
Hey, maybe you can find a crank mechanism to replace the starter motor on your car. Everyone shot manual for a long time because that is what there was. Interesting to me is that the same gurus who help market the highest tech cameras frequently advocate stepping back to a simpler time. Obviously there is learning to be had by shooting manual if you haven't grown up with it over decades, but other than in very rare situations, the technology will successfully smooth your path.


Absolutely. Use the technology that you paid the big bucks for. I use aperture priority 80% of the time or more. I check the exposure on the first shot and adjust from there as needed.
I know where to find a manual crank mechanism if any one is looking.

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Sep 16, 2021 16:48:50   #
delder Loc: Maryland
 
First thought is to experiment with your particular camera, bracketing shots (always in the same order)
Prior commitments were great!
The resulting PICTURE is what matters, not the technical settings.
f stop affects depth of focus in ALL shots, shutter speed only for motion shots. In film days we were limited by 36 shots film and development cost. In the DIGITAL world our batteries are our main limit. I think we may get about 10 times the number of shots on a camera battery.
Almost like FREE film! Also you can review your shots in the field. The ISO setting is like changing out your Tri-X for a fine grain film. Before Digital post processing we would push the Tri-X to 800 or 1200 if needed and live with the grain. Good Luck 👍

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Sep 16, 2021 16:58:41   #
Sentinel4
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I want to use, sometimes that's a function of the lens already mounted, but usually I already selected the lens for the aperture and focal length I plan to use for the subject / situations.

Say I want to use f/5 for a given situation, I'd also like to stay at the lowest ISO possible. So, I adjust the shutterspeed to obtain a sharp image or raise the ISO to get the shutterspeed needed for the composition.

Finally, as mentioned on your question about metering mode, I also want the meter to read +0.7 to +1 in most every situation. So, the f/5 with ISO-100 may not matter whether I'm at 1/500 or 1/320, except the slower speed serves to push the meter to the right.

I don't 'judge the light' deciding what exposure is needed. Rather, I decide my artistic intent via the aperture and focal length of the lens. I adjust the shutterspeed and ISO to use that pre-selected aperture.

For some people it seems shutterspeed is their primary driver, others it seems to be shoot at ISO-100 or don't shoot at all. The aperture is the driver for me, whether in manual or aperture priority or even with a manual aperture lens on a mirrorless where I always set the aperture first and adjust from there.
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I w... (show quote)


Great post. Just to bring an alternate method to the discussion, I use this method but I also use shutter priority as well. Jim Zuckerman an excellent photographer states that in order to guarantee sharpness, he uses shutter priority most frequently assuming the subject requires sharpness.
I am not sure that most folks can tell the difference between f 5.6 and f 11 but if they can more power to them.
Sentinel4

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Sep 16, 2021 17:20:31   #
reverand
 
For those of us who used to use film and had to estimate exposure on the fly, there are a couple of quick and dirty rules. First, many of us used an ASA that was half of what was recommended, so Tri-X rated at ASA 400 would be used at ISO 200. Then, 1/125 at f/16 for direct sunlight. 1/60 at f/11 (plus 2 stops) for cloudy bright. 1/60 at f/8 for open shade. 1/60 at f/5.6 for closed shade. After that, you wing it.

I'd generally walk around with my camera set at 1/60 at f/11, from which it was easy to open it up one or two stops, or close it down, as necessary. And I always erred in the direction of overexposure, because if the detail falls beneath the threshold, you've lost it forever, and you get a blank black.

Digital doesn't really have a threshold, and it has wider latitude.

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Sep 16, 2021 17:28:35   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
reverand wrote:
For those of us who used to use film and had to estimate exposure on the fly, there are a couple of quick and dirty rules. First, many of us used an ASA that was half of what was recommended, so Tri-X rated at ASA 400 would be used at ISO 200. Then, 1/125 at f/16 for direct sunlight. 1/60 at f/11 (plus 2 stops) for cloudy bright. 1/60 at f/8 for open shade. 1/60 at f/5.6 for closed shade. After that, you wing it.

I'd generally walk around with my camera set at 1/60 at f/11, from which it was easy to open it up one or two stops, or close it down, as necessary. And I always erred in the direction of overexposure, because if the detail falls beneath the threshold, you've lost it forever, and you get a blank black.

Digital doesn't really have a threshold, and it has wider latitude.
For those of us who used to use film and had to es... (show quote)

I still use film. It has 3 or more stops of latitude than digital for overexposure for most conventional negative films.

Transparency film generally behaves a lot like digital except that it still has a little more overexposure latitude than digital.

It’s at the dark end that film loses out to digital.

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Sep 16, 2021 17:51:46   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
selmslie wrote:
Each of your frames is working just as though you were shooting on manual, with a fixed ISO, shutter speed and aperture.

My camera wasn't in manual, the camera was in Program mode and that's the point. I was in an auto mode and using a feature of the camera provided for shooting in an auto mode. It allows you to stay in the auto mode and get the same results you could get in manual. And isn't that what I originally said! https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-711661-2.html#12559003

You said that can't be done until you corrected yourself and said it could. One way or the other you're wrong as so often you are. Your problem is you issue pontifical absolute decrees. "Can't" is absolute. There's an argument that it's probably easier and more straightforward to use manual to shoot panoramas but you didn't say that. Instead you just dictated ignorance.

Bye bye

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Sep 16, 2021 18:09:41   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
If you are using autofocus and lock it with a button you are no longer on autofocus. Same concept. Too subtle?

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Sep 16, 2021 18:28:12   #
joecichjr Loc: Chicago S. Suburbs, Illinois, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
Just did it this morning: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-711661-4.html#12559497 and the camera was in Program mode.
I'm always amazed how you know more details about my life than I know myself! Been doing panoramas for decades. Used to have one of these that attached to my Rolleiflex: https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/183745047861_/Rollei-panoramakopf-tripod-camera-panorama-head-bubble-level.jpg -- loved it.

Below is an old one I shot of the river bend at Lansing Iowa (film).

Again here's the ignorant thing that you said: "You can't use any form of auto exposure if you are going to make a panorama." https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-711661-3.html#12559342
And here's you contradicting that in this same thread: "On auto anything it only works if you start at the end with the clouds and lock in that exposure." https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-711661-4.html#12559615

Blow all the smoke you want, what you said was wrong and you said so yourself.
Just did it this morning: https://www.uglyhedgehog... (show quote)


A beautiful shot 💚💙💙💙💚

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Sep 16, 2021 18:28:34   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
selmslie wrote:
If you are using autofocus and lock it with a button you are no longer on autofocus. Same concept. Too subtle?

How did you achieve the focus you locked? Too subtle?

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Sep 16, 2021 18:37:16   #
wingate2417 Loc: Quincy, Ca.
 
Your shots’s are basically free. Experiment with different settings. After a while you’ll get pretty close to exposure you want.

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Sep 16, 2021 18:40:49   #
Hip Coyote
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I want to use, sometimes that's a function of the lens already mounted, but usually I already selected the lens for the aperture and focal length I plan to use for the subject / situations.

Say I want to use f/5 for a given situation, I'd also like to stay at the lowest ISO possible. So, I adjust the shutterspeed to obtain a sharp image or raise the ISO to get the shutterspeed needed for the composition.

Finally, as mentioned on your question about metering mode, I also want the meter to read +0.7 to +1 in most every situation. So, the f/5 with ISO-100 may not matter whether I'm at 1/500 or 1/320, except the slower speed serves to push the meter to the right.

I don't 'judge the light' deciding what exposure is needed. Rather, I decide my artistic intent via the aperture and focal length of the lens. I adjust the shutterspeed and ISO to use that pre-selected aperture.

For some people it seems shutterspeed is their primary driver, others it seems to be shoot at ISO-100 or don't shoot at all. The aperture is the driver for me, whether in manual or aperture priority or even with a manual aperture lens on a mirrorless where I always set the aperture first and adjust from there.
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I w... (show quote)



I agree with this concept and basically am the same....this is why many people use a priority...and work backwards towards shutter speed and iso. I am in aperture mode more often than not. But with regard to manual, I have found it very helpful to figure out what aperture I want, what shutter speed I want and leave the iso to auto; adjusting with the ev from there to make sure that I do not have highlights blown out etc. I also find that my mirrorless really helps me to simply see what it is I am shooting and how it might look when shot...


Or if I am somewhere and would rather speak to friends and family, and not worry about the mode, I use P mode!

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Sep 16, 2021 18:45:00   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I want to use, sometimes that's a function of the lens already mounted, but usually I already selected the lens for the aperture and focal length I plan to use for the subject / situations.

Say I want to use f/5 for a given situation, I'd also like to stay at the lowest ISO possible. So, I adjust the shutterspeed to obtain a sharp image or raise the ISO to get the shutterspeed needed for the composition.

Finally, as mentioned on your question about metering mode, I also want the meter to read +0.7 to +1 in most every situation. So, the f/5 with ISO-100 may not matter whether I'm at 1/500 or 1/320, except the slower speed serves to push the meter to the right.

I don't 'judge the light' deciding what exposure is needed. Rather, I decide my artistic intent via the aperture and focal length of the lens. I adjust the shutterspeed and ISO to use that pre-selected aperture.

For some people it seems shutterspeed is their primary driver, others it seems to be shoot at ISO-100 or don't shoot at all. The aperture is the driver for me, whether in manual or aperture priority or even with a manual aperture lens on a mirrorless where I always set the aperture first and adjust from there.
I look at the subject and decide what aperture I w... (show quote)



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Sep 16, 2021 19:04:29   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Ysarex wrote:
How did you achieve the focus you locked? Too subtle?

Apparently too subtle for you.

Once you lock the focus, if you or the subject moves it will go out of focus.

On autofocus you stand a chance of keeping it in focus if you pick the right focus mode.

This is above your pay grade.

Ta Ta.

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