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Wedding style of overexposed
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Aug 8, 2020 16:23:30   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Sorry if it souded like I am blaming the "victim!. It's just that I have been involved in wedding photograhy, as part of my business, for over half a century and I just can't relate to all the unporfessional antics that some so-called weddig pros pull off! Waht's wrong with these people- where are ther communications skills. Perhaps I've been oversimplifying the photographer/client relationship. A potential cleint comes to me- I show them my work, I ask the if the like it or, if the want any modification or changes of approach. If I can accommodate them I do exactly what they expect. Some clients are very specific and most just tell me to "do my thing"!

What abot hte consumers. Some folks spend more time and effort ordering a pizza than selecting a wedding photographer.

If there is any "balme" for dissapointment it has to be shared between the photograher and the client- "it takes two to tango"!

Legally speaking, the most important aspect of a contract is the meeting of the minds between the parties. There can be an offer, negotiations, and accepatance and at the end of the day both parties need to aggre exactly on all the stipulations and clauses and everybody LITERALLY needs to be on the same page.

If the photographer deceded to change up her style without consulting the customer, it is on her! What woud motivate a logical person to do that? It lacks common sense and ethical business practices.

There was a famous lawsuit (famous among photograhers) where the wedding couple sued their wedding photographer claiming that their wedding photographs were "distorted and grotesque". The lawyer for the photographer strategized that the judge woud not adjudicate on "art" and woud "balme the victim" for not scrutinizing the photographer's style in advance...etc. The judge took one look at the album and found for the plaintiff. He reaosned that even a layman can see this is unacceptable work in that the images were not even near liknesses of the subjects. Seem this genius photographer deceid to shoot the entire job with ultra-wide and fisheye lenses- that decision caost him his business.
Sorry if it souded like I am blaming the "vic... (show quote)


So which is it then? The blame has to be shared between the photographer and the client, or changing her style is all on her? I don't see what the client did wrong. If I were the client, I don't think it would have occurred to me to ask her if she planned to shoot in a different style than she showed me.

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Aug 8, 2020 17:04:30   #
frangela-2 Loc: San Clemente, CA
 
Sorry, but I did not read his/her question as an insult to the wedding photographer. I understand the concern as my son had his wedding pictures taken the same way - highlights blown out. I am only an intermediate level hobbyist and certainly do not have the internal fortitude to take on the huge responsibility of preserving such a moment for others, but it is enticing to ask the question on a forum, being it is drilled into us to not blow out the highlights. I understand that photography is an art form and everyone has their own taste, and surely the couples that pick that style artist chose him/her over others who “followed the rules”.
Personally I will dissuade my daughter from choosing that style on her wedding day next year, as I find it more pleasing NOT to have the highlights blown out. Having said that, it’s her wedding day and we will go with whomever she chooses. I just did not think it was warranted to give the poster a tongue lashing, especially when this is a forum where all opinions should be welcome and discussed freely. A simple “it’s just a trendy style now” , as other courteous posters have said, would have sufficed.

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Aug 8, 2020 17:13:46   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
So which is it then? The blame has to be shared between the photographer and the client, or changing her style is all on her? I don't see what the client did wrong. If I were the client, I don't think it would have occurred to me to ask her if she planned to shoot in a different style than she showed me.


As I tried to explain, I am not "blaming" anyone nor do I want to carry on a protected argument about a situation I have no direct knowledge of. I did not see the images in question, I don't know the photographer and the client says he saw perfectly acceptable examples of her work prior to his wedding. So, frankly, she was stupid enough to change her approach without consulting her client OR showed him samples that were not her own- both bad! If either of this was the case, he (the customer) should have claimed against her for misrepresenting her product or non-performance and at least retrieve his money spent on something he did not order.

The only thing the client did "wrong" was to not calim against the photographer.

Also- I did not balme or judge anyone in my prior post- I just asked questions.

My own geuess is that the photographer simply did not know waht she was doing and tryed to pass off shoudy work as "art"!

Photography may be complex but business law is straightforward. If you ordered and paid for a top-of-the-line camera and instead received a cheap knock-off or point and shoot model or a defective unit, you would be entitled to a refund. In the case of wedding photograhy the court may award damages as well.

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Aug 8, 2020 17:15:46   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
frangela-2 wrote:
Sorry, but I did not read his/her question as an insult to the wedding photographer. I understand the concern as my son had his wedding pictures taken the same way - highlights blown out. I am only an intermediate level hobbyist and certainly do not have the internal fortitude to take on the huge responsibility of preserving such a moment for others, but it is enticing to ask the question on a forum, being it is drilled into us to not blow out the highlights. I understand that photography is an art form and everyone has their own taste, and surely the couples that pick that style artist chose him/her over others who “followed the rules”.
Personally I will dissuade my daughter from choosing that style on her wedding day next year, as I find it more pleasing NOT to have the highlights blown out. Having said that, it’s her wedding day and we will go with whomever she chooses. I just did not think it was warranted to give the poster a tongue lashing, especially when this is a forum where all opinions should be welcome and discussed freely. A simple “it’s just a trendy style now” , as other courteous posters have said, would have sufficed.
Sorry, but I did not read his/her question as an i... (show quote)


The OP did not choose the blown out style. The photographer showed them a more standard style, and she changed to the blown out style without asking.

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Aug 9, 2020 06:54:18   #
trinhqthuan Loc: gaithersburg
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Every time there are posts about wedding photography on this forum, there is always some sort of negativism or complaint about the entire genre and industry. Stories of incompetent wedding photographers, substandard work, and wedding horror stores fill the threads.

I have been involved in wedding photography and wedding fashion photography for well over 50 years and I just don't see any of this bad work. In my own work and in training new wedding shooters I stress lighting and posing techniques that render the utmost detail in every stitch of white wedding gowns. I have NEVER had a client ask for washed-out images with vacant whites or anything related to overexposure. I have never had a bride, a bridal salon, a couturier client, or an ad agency ask for such imagery.

Yes, there is some rough stuff out there but it is not the work of experienced professionals.

Sometimes folks opine of stuff they know nothing about- I hate when that happens.

If the stuff you are talking about is that bad- show me!
Every time there are posts about wedding photograp... (show quote)



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Aug 9, 2020 10:54:46   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
Lexartiste wrote:
Must mean either the new photographers or their clients never studied the great painters or current experts


It might be a “stretch” to assume today’s clients are clueless when it comes to the arts, however, it likely indicates that preferences of today’s youth are different than ours perhaps. Every time I see kids with their baseball hats on backwards I wonder...then suddenly, I remember how my folks disliked Elvis, or how I rotated my handle bars on my bicycle from the normal position, or grew my hair longer than the military styles of the 50s; all in a desire to be “different” from my elders. This too will pass...

Cheers!

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Aug 9, 2020 14:14:57   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
xt2 wrote:
It might be a “stretch” to assume today’s clients are clueless when it comes to the arts, however, it likely indicates that preferences of today’s youth are different than ours perhaps. Every time I see kids with their baseball hats on backward I wonder...then suddenly, I remember how my folks disliked Elvis, or how I rotated my handlebars on my bicycle from the normal position or grew my hair longer than the military styles of the 50s; all in a desire to be “different” from my elders. This too will pass...

Cheers!
It might be a “stretch” to assume today’s clients ... (show quote)


True enough- times change, styles change, and fads come and go. So the savvy weddig photographer has to monitor the market, introduced changes within reason. and make certain he or she has not pushed themselves out of the market. Most importantly the photographer has to discuss these options with the clients and both parties have to know what to expect.

Sadly enough, there is some ageism out there and many younger folks think that an older photographer can't satisfy their requirements. In my own business, I have solved that issue. I am a 76-year-old. an old man with a gray beard! I can produce a range of styles that go from the 1960s (and even before my time) to the present day. I can shoot faster and more efficiently than some of my younger second shooters, assistants, and trainees. I promise a mixture of contemporary classic bridal portraiture and more current photojournalistic styles so, in effect, they can have their cake and eat it too! It's pleasemtly surprising how some of the kids really select and enjoy the more elegant and romantic shots as well as the fun pictures.

Lately, once the bride told me she didn't want any posed formals, however, she would gladly pose so that her parents and grandparents could enjoy soem traditional groups and portraits. So...she ordered a 100 page- 2 volume leather bound album in a slipcase and 75% of the images were the "formals. She remarked that she never look better in pictures- she though she was unphotogenic but in her pictures, she looks like a fashion model and will treasure the portraot images of her parents and grandparent forever.

The young folks may wear funny hats, sport more tatoos that a sailor, some have strange hairstyles and speak ther own language but the are smart. consumer savvy, and creative.

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Aug 9, 2020 16:13:44   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Lexartiste wrote:
Looking at top wedding magazines, it appears that the current style is to overexpose which blows out highlights and loses texture in the gowns and washes out skin tones. This not what most of us strive for.


Overexposure tends to minimize skin blemishes and wrinkles. Bride, guests and the mother of the bride may be rather pleased with THAT result.

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Aug 9, 2020 16:42:58   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Yes, I remember being disappointed with coarse screens on newsprint but I knew how to make prints that would survive.

Back in the film days, I guess I was fortunate that most of my clients used top-quality 4-color process lithography, top-quality stock, and techniques like spot varnishing. Of course, a reflection print or a printed page does not have the dynamic range of transparency viewed by transmitted light but again I suppled transparencies that fit the process and oftentimes supplied shadow or highlights masks to retain detail.If the original print, transparency or digital files is poorly crafted, seriosl under or over exposed or completely out of color balance, the is no printng process that can restor detai or informatio that is not there.
Yes, I remember being disappointed with coarse scr... (show quote)


Very impressive.

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Aug 9, 2020 17:51:46   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
CatMarley wrote:
Overexposure tends to minimize skin blemishes and wrinkles. Bride, guests and the mother of the bride may be rather pleased with THAT result.


True enough, but there are problems. I usually address blemishes or certain wrinkles in retouching or sometimes with soft-focus optics. If you try to do that by overexposure, thereby reducing the density of the entire image, the unaffected skin tone, the dress, and flowers woud wash out significantly. If you wanted to eliminate blemishes such as acne, birthmarks, etc., or very deep wrinles, the degree of over exposure requried to do that woud cause the unaffected skin tone, other folks in the picture would look abnormally pale and the gown woud be entirely blown our.

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Aug 9, 2020 20:05:43   #
smussler Loc: Land O Lakes, FL - Formerly Miller Place, NY
 
CHG_CANON wrote:


Good one Paul. Biggest laugh for me this week.

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