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Dec 9, 2019 17:04:24   #
Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I hope you were just trying to be humorous.


It's all I have left... my sense of humour. I have to be a little careful as sometimes it doesn't translate too well whilst crossing the pond

George Bernard Shaw once said: 'England and America are two countries divided by a common language' He forgot to mention the sense of humour

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Dec 9, 2019 17:14:04   #
MMC Loc: Brooklyn NY
 
I think that taking pictures and PP should go together. I checked some of your pictures and tried improve one of them. If you do not mind I can show my rendition here.
papaluv4gd wrote:
when I view some of the posts that are put up on the hog, many of them are very nice,some are outstanding, and some are just too over prossessed.

Now this is just my humble opinion.

Some of the posts are just too evenly lit,every shadow detail is available, trees and mountains are all just picture post card perfect. Now I have been around enough to know that scenic opportunities are rarely ,if ever perfectly illuminated. So...my thought is, am I the only one who is satisfied with capturing a given scene SOOC ?

I often shoot my scenics with both eyes open with the thought of capturing in camera exactly what is before me, or as close as I can get it given the broad spectrum of light falling on a given vista.

I'm afraid that there is so much PP of everything ,that what we all are exposed to now are all just personal renditions of what is or was actually there. Some post are so perfectly PP'd, that they take on the apperance of a lithograph rather than a photograph.
I read only your post and did not read others. My opinion that taking picture and PP must go together. I checked some of your pictures without PP and tried to improve one of them. If you do not mind I can show my rendition here.
Example: taking a picture of the sun will always render the rest of the scene whofully under exposed, yet I see shots with the sun as evenly lit as the surrounding landscape. Yes, there are times when it is possible to shoot a sun scene and have some forground or backround lit. But not evenly. I have tried. something has to give.

I feel like a lone wolf trying to capture what I see as it is, while many are manipulating their shots to render them more perfect or "pleasing" to the eye.

With so much pp going on, it's very hard to know what is real anymore.

Just my observations and ramblings.
when I view some of the posts that are put up on t... (show quote)

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Dec 9, 2019 17:18:40   #
Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Yes, I realized that. I actually changed the post of mine you were quoting.


I am fully of the opinion that everyone is free to do as they please with post-processing. There is no right or no wrong.

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Dec 9, 2019 17:20:58   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
papaluv4gd wrote:
when I view some of the posts that are put up on the hog, many of them are very nice,some are outstanding, and some are just too over prossessed.

Now this is just my humble opinion.

Some of the posts are just too evenly lit,every shadow detail is available, trees and mountains are all just picture post card perfect. Now I have been around enough to know that scenic opportunities are rarely ,if ever perfectly illuminated. So...my thought is, am I the only one who is satisfied with capturing a given scene SOOC ?

I often shoot my scenics with both eyes open with the thought of capturing in camera exactly what is before me, or as close as I can get it given the broad spectrum of light falling on a given vista.

I'm afraid that there is so much PP of everything ,that what we all are exposed to now are all just personal renditions of what is or was actually there. Some post are so perfectly PP'd, that they take on the apperance of a lithograph rather than a photograph.

Example: taking a picture of the sun will always render the rest of the scene whofully under exposed, yet I see shots with the sun as evenly lit as the surrounding landscape. Yes, there are times when it is possible to shoot a sun scene and have some forground or backround lit. But not evenly. I have tried. something has to give.

I feel like a lone wolf trying to capture what I see as it is, while many are manipulating their shots to render them more perfect or "pleasing" to the eye.

With so much pp going on, it's very hard to know what is real anymore.

Just my observations and ramblings.
when I view some of the posts that are put up on t... (show quote)


Everyone sees the world differently and with the option of post processing what you photograph to meet your own tastes there are bound to be 'differences' in the results.

We probably look at more 'pictures' in a week than our parents saw in a lifetime. Andy Worhol took an image or Maralyne Monrow and put several different 'colour castes' of it into a single arrangement. It became 'Iconic' but would you or I get away with it at the local club meeting now, when everyone knows how easy it it to reproduce. You are damned if you don't post process it and damned if you do. Even accused of doing it when you haven't.

Real is only what you think. Find images that you admire and strive to emulate them. There are too many people 'taking images' to try and make a statement about what is right or wrong in their 'ideals'. There is no 'standard' to achieve - because you have too many peers.

Have fun

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Dec 9, 2019 17:52:32   #
srt101fan
 
AzPicLady wrote:
Some are reality shooters. Some shoot to create a base for what I call digital art. Both are art forms and require a separate set of skills. What rankles me is the failure to disclose which it is. For example, if someone posts an image of a bird flying in front of the moon, I marvel at his ability to catch that. When I find out it's a composite, my attitude changes. It's no longer a wonderful catch. It's a good job of assimilating various elements. I used to say that one requires one to be skilled in photography while the other requires skill in computer work. They are different skills. There are those who try to make us believe that until we have manipulated an image to the max, we haven't fully "developed" it. I disagree.

It's all in one's mission and purpose. Both are valid art forms.
Some are reality shooters. Some shoot to create a... (show quote)


Your categorization of a photographer’s approach as either realism or digital art is interesting and no doubt sufficient for some. I am not totally comfortable with it. I tend to view the various ways that images are created with a camera as a continuum that ranges from minimum to extreme processing.

Zero processing cannot produce an image but we can think of it as the left end of the continuum. The right end might be thought of as a degree of processing that totally transforms the image. SOOC photos are processed in-camera with settings for brightness, contrast, saturation, filters, etc, and can include double-exposure, monochrome, HDR and infrared images. So SOOC images fall somewhere between the two ends of the continuum.

SOOC generally means that the image is ready for use without post-processing in a photo editing program. Probably a useful characterization for some photographers in their communications with others. It loses its usefulness when people try to assign a photographic "worth" to SOOC vs post-processed images. This can only lead to heated and hollow debates, as we’ve seen so often in this forum.

So the issue should not be “reality vs PP”, it should be the extent and type of image processing you are comfortable with.

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Dec 9, 2019 18:02:25   #
artBob Loc: Near Chicago
 
Graham Smith wrote:
It's all I have left... my sense of humour. I have to be a little careful as sometimes it doesn't translate too well whilst crossing the pond

George Bernard Shaw once said: 'England and America are two countries divided by a common language' He forgot to mention the sense of humour


"The English country-gentleman galloping after a fox — the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable."
Oscar Wilde

Quite possibly an analog to galloping after a photograph, riding a one-trick pony, with an inner temper.

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Dec 9, 2019 18:04:00   #
bbradford Loc: Wake Forest NC
 
I tend to agree. But, I also feel it's an art form and that should be left up to the "artist". Some people like abstract painting and I think it looks like a 6 year old did it. JMO. Maybe we should have categories in photography like painting. We could have just as taken and " Improved categories.

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Dec 9, 2019 18:07:06   #
bbradford Loc: Wake Forest NC
 
Let's have categories like painting. We could have just as shot and " Improved".

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Dec 9, 2019 18:39:34   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Better to you could be garbage to others.
That is why we do what we like and others can form their opinions if it is really better than real or just another gaudy over cooked me too photo.
So do as you please and the OP does as they please and we all have fun with the hobby or profession for some here.


Agreed, artists for centuries have painted their interpretation on a scene. Now we can do the same, without a darkroom, which, is even better.

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Dec 9, 2019 18:48:30   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
billnikon wrote:
Agreed, artists for centuries have painted their interpretation on a scene. Now we can do the same, without a darkroom, which, is even better.



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Dec 9, 2019 18:55:21   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
When you subscript to Adobe software, ordinary people now have a chance create the same beautiful images as the rich.

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Dec 9, 2019 19:01:54   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
If you like it that way, hang it that way. Nobody will object.

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Dec 9, 2019 19:27:07   #
Pixeldawg Loc: Suzhou, China
 
wdross wrote:
Even in the digital age, the sensors will capture a scene as acturately as possible and probably more acturately than the film days. But there will be differences in number of color pixels and the algorithms to balance out their inequalities.


I have to disagree with this. Firstly, RAW images don't add any of these- it is simply what the sensor records and nothing more. There are also devices, such as the "Expodisc" (which I wrote about, several years back... Here is the article:

https://www.popphoto.com/gear/2008/12/field-test-expodisc/

Very easy to use and if used consistently and properly, will yield HIGHLY accurate color. Takes some work, but it is possible and, if you shoot a significant number of images, will save you a huge amount of time in post processing work. Even today, my ExpoDisc is always in my bag.

If accuracy is truly important (which, it should be), you have several steps that you have to ensure are done properly, using a device such as the ExpoDisc is easy and highly accurate with color that is 99.97% accurate. Doesn't get much better than this. Monitor calibration is also critical and generally most people who print images have their particular specifications available for download, so that YOUR monitor and THEIR monitor are using the exact same calibration. This allows you to be very exact in your image editing and color balance.

Hope this helps,

Mark Lent

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Dec 9, 2019 21:48:25   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
papaluv4gd wrote:
when I view some of the posts that are put up on the hog, many of them are very nice,some are outstanding, and some are just too over prossessed.

Now this is just my humble opinion.

Some of the posts are just too evenly lit,every shadow detail is available, trees and mountains are all just picture post card perfect. Now I have been around enough to know that scenic opportunities are rarely ,if ever perfectly illuminated. So...my thought is, am I the only one who is satisfied with capturing a given scene SOOC ?

I often shoot my scenics with both eyes open with the thought of capturing in camera exactly what is before me, or as close as I can get it given the broad spectrum of light falling on a given vista.

I'm afraid that there is so much PP of everything ,that what we all are exposed to now are all just personal renditions of what is or was actually there. Some post are so perfectly PP'd, that they take on the apperance of a lithograph rather than a photograph.

Example: taking a picture of the sun will always render the rest of the scene whofully under exposed, yet I see shots with the sun as evenly lit as the surrounding landscape. Yes, there are times when it is possible to shoot a sun scene and have some forground or backround lit. But not evenly. I have tried. something has to give.

I feel like a lone wolf trying to capture what I see as it is, while many are manipulating their shots to render them more perfect or "pleasing" to the eye.

With so much pp going on, it's very hard to know what is real anymore.

Just my observations and ramblings.
when I view some of the posts that are put up on t... (show quote)


For what it's worth my images sometimes most often come SOOC. In a few cases, I make minor adjustments to brightness and contrast. Regardless, it's a personal decision, and not for anyone to tell anyone else what is the best way for them to create images. I agree about the ills of over-processing. I see landscapes with colors that don't exist in nature. Nonetheless, if the photographer felt those images were examples of his/her best work, that's none of my business. In the word of criticism of ANY art, there is no objective truth, only an uncountable number of subjective opinions. >Alan

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Dec 9, 2019 22:07:34   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
papaluv4gd wrote:
when I view some of the posts that are put up on the hog, many of them are very nice,some are outstanding, and some are just too over prossessed.

Now this is just my humble opinion.

Some of the posts are just too evenly lit,every shadow detail is available, trees and mountains are all just picture post card perfect. Now I have been around enough to know that scenic opportunities are rarely ,if ever perfectly illuminated. So...my thought is, am I the only one who is satisfied with capturing a given scene SOOC ?

I often shoot my scenics with both eyes open with the thought of capturing in camera exactly what is before me, or as close as I can get it given the broad spectrum of light falling on a given vista.

I'm afraid that there is so much PP of everything ,that what we all are exposed to now are all just personal renditions of what is or was actually there. Some post are so perfectly PP'd, that they take on the apperance of a lithograph rather than a photograph.

Example: taking a picture of the sun will always render the rest of the scene whofully under exposed, yet I see shots with the sun as evenly lit as the surrounding landscape. Yes, there are times when it is possible to shoot a sun scene and have some forground or backround lit. But not evenly. I have tried. something has to give.

I feel like a lone wolf trying to capture what I see as it is, while many are manipulating their shots to render them more perfect or "pleasing" to the eye.

With so much pp going on, it's very hard to know what is real anymore.

Just my observations and ramblings.
when I view some of the posts that are put up on t... (show quote)



My take on the subject

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-619848-1.html

While its nice to know what can be done, the end result depends on personal taste or purpose of the image. As shown in the link, a full edit can be realistic that if not shown can be mistaken as SOOC.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-614602-1.html
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-590195-1.html

It can also be too artistic as to be a niche product.

So in the end, it is always a personal choice, each has a purpose and intrinsic value.

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