artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Chaz, as to the use of photoshop, AS LONG AS the processing works with what the camera medium gives, as E.L. Shapiro pointed out: "light, tone and texture," and other elements of value, edge, and shape, it is a fine tool for making art at any level. Just as a conductor works with volume, tempo, timber, various instruments, etc, using Photoshop to work with the camera medium elements is a fine photographic tool..

Your final question is tricky to answer. "At what point in post processing would you consider a photograph no longer a photograph but art?" you ask. At any point, or even the point before any post processing, a photo can be considered art. Art is hard to define, but basically Fine Art is about Truth and Beauty, a significant and unique (creative) view of the human condition, and the use of the elements (light, texture,value,color,shape,composition) in a significant way, to add impact(Beauty) to that truth.

Similar to music, art ranges from what you might hang on your refrigerator, to something mildly pleasurable, to meeting the highest standards of the particular time and personal expression. Photoshop is just a tool, and can be used in any of those scenarios.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Out of curiosity, what percent of UHH members do you believe have the goal of being accepted to fine art museums or high level galleries?

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

I have no idea about how many have the highest aspirations, nor do I think it relevant. In anything (baseball, office,investing, photography), you play at the level you want, but need to be aware of the whole spectrum for many reasons. Many, as with their economic status, want to elevate their game a bit. A few might want to change careers. Knowing about the various levels of photography and the expectation of each seems like a good idea to me.

Why do you ask, Linda?

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I like the images as they are- perhaps a few edits to perfect the tones, etc. If, however, you want to get into a simulation of various painting styles, the variations are many and almost endless depending on what you want to achieve and your own imagination. You can simply mount the photograph on canvas (old method) or print it on canvas or other textured material. You can impart a brush or kinda bas-relief texture in a Topaz or similar software. You can go further and do a major alteration of the image where various painting styles are synthesized by altering the shape, contrast, color bias, and texture of the element in the original image.

The examples I have posted were done on my Android-powered tablet with various apps.that are also available for your smartphone. This one is called "Arto Oil Painting". In my commercial photography business, I use Topaz.

I consider all of these "special effects" as opposed to pure photography. I find it fun to choose an image and match it up to one of my favorite painter's style. Frankly, sometimes it is a salvage or rescue project for a lackluster image were bumping up the contrast, exaggerating the color and adding texture will "make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" kinda thing. Sometimes just a touch or suggestion of texture or stylization will subtly enhance a good image. It's a matter of taste and fun!

For all the purists out there, it is not pure art or SOOTC photography- it is accomplished by presets, electronic, and artificial intelligence means. If the is any artistry involved it is in the extent of the application to the subject, the appropriateness of the effect to the subject and the degree of control exercised by the operator.

buckscop Loc: Bucks County PA

I haven't read any of the replys, but I am a PSE user, now on 19. At least in 18 & 19, I have yet to click on a 'painting' selection that I thought looked good. Years ago I used Microsoft 2006 software. That used to have a 'canvas' choice, that the results did mimic the current look of photos we put on canvas. I would like PSE to have something similar.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Compare/contrast your comment, "For a serious photographer, I wonder why they would even want to imitate a painting." with Ed's, "The OP asked what I consider a technical question, as to a special effect, and I have no reason to question his motives, ethics, or reasons for what he wants to do."

Perhaps I am having the same reaction as someone who complained about my encouraging an OP to learn exposure when the question was only, "What settings should I use for a sunset?"

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

The OP later answered. He was wanting to make a painting-like photo because a client wanted it. He himself did not consider it good photography.

I think passing on valuable information is worthwhile. What I said is true.Many, myself included, do not think a photo made to look like something else is "serious" photography, unless entered into a Manipulated category. Perhaps some here did not know that.

I would rather see each person develop their own "voice," using what the camera medium provides rather than spiff ump their work with a trick.

Ednsb Loc: Santa Barbara

Not free but Topaz Studio 2 is great at this. Perhaps the best I've seen. If you can find someone with a copy of TS1 it does a good job as well. Both can be used as plugin from PS, PSE, Lightroom, and ON1.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Perhaps someone else spoke those words in the thread. The OP said, "It is possible to be a serious photographer and still want to satisfy one's curiosity about the capabilities of editing software. I prefer photography to oil painting, but sometimes I have an image that I think might also look good as an oil painting. Having no painting skills, I like to play around with a simulated effect."In another thread you wrote, "Do whatever pleases you" is lousy advice, often leading to sadness and failure. The reason I asked you the earlier question is because of the occasional Great Truth Tellers on UHH who have successfully silenced or completely driven away some who enjoy the "tricks" as you call them.

I like to see the casual photographer and/or pp experimenter supported in his/her pursuit of the hobby's pleasures.

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

You seem to have an attitude about something, which I do not understand, when you scold "Great Truth Tellers." What is your point? What sp4ecific support is there for the claim "Great Truth Tellers on UHH... have successfully silenced or completely driven away some who enjoy the "tricks" as you call them." I certainly want people to enjoy creating, best possible when you know the world in which you are creating.

Your profiling is entirely wrong. As a teacher, mentor, and tutor, one of my goals has been for people to use their talents where they fit, and to develop those talents as much as they can or care to. As the song goes: "'Tis a gift to be free
'Tis a gift to come down where we ought to be
And when we find ourselves in the place just right
It will be in the valley of love and delight."

As I stated before many times, there are many levels in photography, similar to many levels in music. Do you disagree on that?

Next, it is good to know your talent and where you are on the spectrum of your hobby, calling, or whatever, so you can do something at the most rewarding spot for you. Do you disagree with that?

So, I am very confused, with your accusations, I think, of eliteness, when in reality I am caring about true assessment and fulfilling one's life.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

My claim about those who have been driven off the site is based on folks with whom I continue to correspond via email, as well as a few who shared their reasons for departing prior to their exit.

Regarding the rest of your reply, I just read a great entry by l-fox in the latest SOOC topic. He wrote, "Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do." Great advice for all of us.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-616020-11.html#10621997

All the best, Bob.

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Many people have been hurt with people "doing what they gotta do." Of course, the world has also been helped by people "doing what they gotta do." Do you suggest any way of knowing whether what a person is doing is moral, just, or even really healthy for their own survival?

I have as a basis for discussions: talk about the points under discussion, truthfully and openly. In this case, making a photo resemble a painting is less than authentic, both for the medium and for the photographer. It may be fun, it may fill up time, but, in general, it does not improve the skill of the photographer nor allow them to develop their own creativity and view of the world. That is not an opinion, but a fact, easily researched or personally experienced. If that truth causes some to leave the discussion, I suggest they may have some problem that should be blamed on someone else.

Looked at from a different perspective, another good way to discuss things: suppose you are in a cover band. If you think you are great, and others just don't appreciate you like you do, you probably have a personal problem with reality. If you enjoy performing where you do, know you are not going to get a record contract, much less ever play a major venue, you can be happy doing what you are doing, using your time that way. It's quite similar in photography, or darn near anything else in life, no? Making a "painting" from a photo is akin to being in a cover band. The truth will, truly, make you free.

hassighedgehog Loc: Corona, CA

Corel Painter Essentials does a fairly good job. Has about 11 styles that will Auto paint. Plus can paint by hand over a photo. Also original paintings (no photo involved). I have version 5.

donmikes Loc: Doylestown, PA

As the OP, I appreciate the helpful comments and suggestions from the OTHER respondents and agree with Linda's viewpoint.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I'll use a phrase that I heard on television the other day but perhaps it will be better received in this context. "GET OVER IT"- photography, over time has changed as has other disciplines like music, literature, science and many other visual arts. There is a great deal of CROSSOVER. In many creative fields, there is orthodox, classical, modern, contemporary, popular, and avant-garde. Add some fad, kitsch, fashion, and uniqueness and you have one hell of a smorgasbord! There is pure photography, AKA fine art, computer art, special effects. commercial photography, and many sub-specialties and the lines between these categories have become thinner as time goes on.

Another epiphany for some of the folks around here is that the practitioners of all of these crafts are human beings, each with the own talents, strengths, levels of skill and know-how, philosophies, ideas and concepts, and all that good stuff that goes on in their brains. Not everyone wants to do the same things the same way. Not everyone is in it for the same reasons, motivations, or intentions. We are not performing brain surgery or dealing with nuclear weapons so if someone does things or likes things differently from your own ways, just "get over it"!

Surprisingly, old dogs can learn new tricks and young dogs could benefit from some old tricks.

Let me share a brief biographical snippet. In my youth, I decided to enroll in a photography program at a rather prestigious college in Philadelphia-at the time connected with the Philadelphia Museum. My classes were in the "Commercial Art" faculty, however, we were required to take certain classes in the "Fine Arts" department. The culture clash was insane- the "artistes" called us "prostitutes", and I won't write what our group retorted. This craziness seemed to exist among some of this profs and the students as well! I lasted one semester, ran off, joined the army and went to war- in a way it was more peaceful there. Sometimes around this forum it's kida deja vu!

Play nice!