Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL

Folks - I raised this subject a few years back and thought I’d give it an encore. UHH has 2 sections for members to post pics - Photo Gallery and Photo Analysis and posting constructive criticism in the first is frowned upon. I think this rule does a disservice to photographers looking to up their game.

I often look at posts in the Gallery and too often see, sorry for the blunt language, just awful photos. I’m not talking about subjective matters. I’m talking about pics that are out of focus, poorly exposed, with wildly tilted horizons (not done intentionally for artistic purposes), badly post processed or overprocessed, poorly composed with telephone poles growing out of heads, etc. or any number of other technical (NOT subjective) flaws.

And most times, well meaning members post, “Great set”, or “Nicely done” or other “ attaboys” in an attempt to not hurt another member’s feelings. I see this as counterproductive and reinforcing bad technique by poster. I ask how is a member to develop better photography skills if, I again apologize upfront, technically terrible pics are displayed and followed by lots of gushing platitudes?

Last time I mentioned this, I was slapped down by numerous members who argue that unless a poster requests constructive criticism, nothing negative should be said. Ok - I’ll buy the “If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing” idea, but gushing over bad stuff does harm to the poster too. If the pics are bad, say nothing. Stop reinforcing bad work.

Just a suggestion to those posting to the Gallery in the future - think about soliciting criticisms so you can improve your work. Sure you will get many nasty, snarky and often incorrect replies from a certain subsection of members, but you will also get many great suggestions for improvement offered in a polite, constructive manner. I’ve been a photographer for 55 yrs and I welcome all well meaning and civil critiques. We are never too old to learn a new trick.

Anxious to see the replies to this rant.

jlocke Loc: Austin, TX

I am of the "don't say anything if you can't say something nice" crowd, especially when the photo is posted in a section that isn't open to criticism. On the other hand, if I don't think the photo(s) are especially nice, I just move on without leaving a comment.

Not long ago I posted some photos of a woodpecker in our backyard, and one comment was to the effect that some of them looked a little soft. I don't mind that criticism, I shot through the kitchen window, so yeah.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Rick, your topic is well meaning, not a rant at all. However, you're starting with the wrong assumption.

Photo Gallery is primarily a social sharing site. The majority of UHH users are over 70 years old.
Those who wish to "improve" (the meaning will be different for everyone) will ask for help.

Regarding where you can post photos, there are dozens of under-utilized volunteer-managed sections. Anyone unfamiliar should go to "all sections" at the bottom of this page. Subscribe to those of interest, and participate!

I frequent Landscape section and Black and White. And I always encourage feedback I also co-manage Digital Artistry, where we are open to constructive suggestions and opinions.

A note about Photo Analysis. The guidelines, written by Admin, are very specific as to that section's purpose. Folks who want to post there should read that pinned doc first. Otherwise, Admin will just move them to Gallery.

Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV

I agree with you. I don't like to criticize folks work, even if they invite it. But I am guilty of saying something somewhat negative about egregious things like WAY tilted horizons, etc. Especially to newer members. I try to couch it in a humorous way in an attempt to not hurt feelings. I haven't had any complaints yet, but I keep it to a minimum anyway.

Wingpilot Loc: Wasilla. Ak

I understand what you’re getting at, but I don’t think everyone on UHH intends to post images that are technically perfect. A lot of folks post photos because they just want to share something that was meaningful to them. Yeah, there are a lot of photos that aren’t particularly good for one reason or another, but maybe perfection isn’t the point. I’ve seen some very beautiful photos posted that weren’t technically perfect, but were well worth looking at. If one is a professional and makes a living with photography then yes, images have to be correctly done, but for the rest of us who just enjoy taking photos, it’s just for that enjoyment, for personal enjoyment or to share with others.

If a photo is particularly bad I just won’t comment on it and if it’s in the Gallery, then criticism isn’t warranted unless the poster specifically asks for it. In that case the image might be better posted in the analysis section. But my philosophy is to just enjoy all the photos others have posted and maybe pick up some good ideas along the way.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Well said, Greg. Personal enjoyment, and sharing with others!

However, re Photo Analysis see my comment above.

Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL

You seem to be making my point. When someone mentioned that the image looked a little soft, you didn’t mind the critique, especially since you knew it was so due to shooting through glass. I posted my original rant several years ago after I replied (POLITELY) to a Gallery post suggesting that a background was too cluttered and stepping left or right a few steps would have improved the shot and I got slammed (NOT so politely) for daring to offer criticism in that forum. If your ego can’t take a well intended suggestion, you should consider not posting.

Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL

I guess I understand your theoretical point, but it still amazes me that someone (regardless of age) wouldn’t rather have constructive criticism that smoke being blown…..

I’ll have to learn to live with it 😎

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I have occasionally made similar comments as you just made. You are correct in that it does not help fellow photographers improve if nobody points out their errors. But I have found out over the years each of us has a different perspective on our photographs and photographs of others. I want someone to point out mistakes I have made that I maybe just didn't notice during post processing. I am of the belief from a photographic mentor I highly respect, only show your best work.

But here is a problem I have run into. I think it covers the subject well. Years ago I was the manager of a photo section in a national drug store. Two elderly sisters, like late 80's to 90's elderly, would come in with film to be developed from their Kodak 110 camera. On one occasion they had been raving about one of their cats having a litter of kittens. They had taken photos with the 110 camera and were anxious to see the results. A few days later they came in to pick up their film. They stood there at the counter making oooh and aaah sounds while looking at the photos. Then they handed them to me and asked, Dennis aren't these some of the best photos you have ever seen of little kittens? What my eyes saw must have been a far cry from what they saw. I was 30 years younger back then. All I saw was one little black dot from across a kitchen floor surrounded by a few black dots, the cat and kittens. It was hard for me to even recognize them as cats. Dots would be the correct name for them in my opinion.

Answering these lovely ladies was easy. I told them I thought they had taken a series of beautiful photographs of their beautiful cat with her kittens. They asked if I wanted a kitten or two and I grudgingly said I had no room for cats in my tiny apartment, thank you very much. In my opinion anybody here would have told them the very same thing I said.

For some of us here on UHH we do want to improve, do want to take prize winning photographs and continue to learn new and effective techniques. But that does not work for others.

Dennis

BebuLamar

Most of the posts in the gallery the posters think their works are very good. They wouldn't want to hear differently.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

I don't have time to review every post, even those initially misplaced into the Main Discussion section. Some members ask for help / feedback, where I occasionally try to give actionable feedback, especially on processing issues or cropping ideas. There's a lot of excellent work shared into the Photo Gallery, more so than this rant would seem to indicate.

Rick from NY Loc: Sarasota FL

Touché.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Tempest in a teapot?

I avoid the gallery like the plague, simple as that.

When I post there, I do so to have a 'layman' point of view and ask for an open critic, not a 'ooooohhhh it's soooo goooood'. It is never 'so good', there is always room to improve. The feedback in the gallery is primal most of the time, but heck, it is often more on point than when folks are looking for 'fault'. As such, it is more honest.

I was errr... Criticized for posting there in the intent to have a generic feedback, that I should have used a different section such as the ones cited by Linda. These are elitist - in my opinion - and you can quickly run afoul of the small communities there.

I have been really critical of some images that are in the gallery... The reason is that these were posted in the main channel where they do not belong and later transferred by the admin. I just do not like folks that post by 'mistake' for click, thinking they will get the 'what-a-boy' feedback. Had they posted where they belong, they would not have heard a peep, as I would not even know of their existence.

MJPerini

Folks, one of the joys of photography is that it can bee enjoyed at many levels. Everyone starts somewhere.
The gallery is meant to be a "riskless" place to see your photo on the internet, and show it to others.
There is a reason it is structured that way, it encourages people to post regardless of their skill level.
These folks are not looking for your criticism, even if it is well intentioned. They just want to post pictures they are proud of.
There are lots of other places where criticism IS allowed , here and other places.
Having one place free from criticism, where people can feel safe is a very good idea.
Also, try to remember the audience....... This is not some high stakes gallery, I is a cordial meeting place for mostly older photographers to share and talk about Photography. All skill levels are welcome, and we do have lots of accomplished photographers as well as those who just do it for enjoyment.
Unsolicited criticism is generally not welcome anywhere, even if it is meant to be helpful
That should be a pretty easy concept to understand.
Be happy, take Pictures

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I'm saddened to discover I was wrong about the OP's intent.

This mean-spirited follow-up says a lot.

jlocke, Wingpilot, Dennis (a whole different Dennis from who I see in The Attic ), Chg_Canon, MJPerini, and I "get it." The rest of you can look up the words "kindness" and "tolerance."

- unwatch -