California No Longer Going To Hell.. (Page 7): Almost none of those countries have the distances etc. that many Americans drive as a normal thing. We are spread out, those older...

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

alexol wrote:

Yes, correct. That doesn't change the fact that these countries manage just fine with their gas price.

Almost none of those countries have the distances etc. that many Americans drive as a normal thing. We are spread out, those older countries the cities etc. developed in the days of walking and horses, then tacked on commuter railroads. They also don't spread out into suburbs with large lots and lawns like we did. We have several metro areas in the US that are bigger than many small countries around the world.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

chrissybabe wrote:

Not sure how you define 'manage'. We are currently... (show quote)

Calculators/computers are faster than drills, pipelines and refineries.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

therwol wrote:

CO2 is considered a greenhouse gas. There is pre... (show quote)

In the past (geologic time, not "I remember time" or news cycle time.) the CO2 has been much higher, temps have been much higher, CO2 has also been much lower and temps much lower. it is a cycle measured in many thousands, millions or even a billion years and humans didn't have a thing to do with most of it. Weren't even on the planet as humans for the vast majority of that time. And life developed, grew, evolved and flourished over that long time period.

Ed48 Loc: Superior, Wisconsin

sippyjug104 wrote:

I have a lot of old friends that are spending thei... (show quote)

Best laugh I have had in years!!!

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

OK, folks, when I started this thread yesterday the average price of middle grade gas in CA was $6.02 and a hair. Today it is just short of $6.07 and the article I got it from says "Metro California" meaning the major cities, not far corners etc. where it is even higher because it is all hauled there in trucks = no RR, no pipeline, no port for tankers and no local refinery.

wilpharm Loc: Oklahoma

NMGal wrote:

Just got gas today. $4.10 for regular. Northern New exico.

3.69 Central Okla

David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA

I've no idea what it is in DFW, and don't care. I'm fortunate enough to not be worried about the cost of fuel. I do sympathize with those who are not as well off, however.

therwol Loc: USA

robertjerl wrote:

In the past (geologic time, not "I remember time" or news cycle time.) the CO2 has been much higher, temps have been much higher, CO2 has also been much lower and temps much lower. it is a cycle measured in many thousands, millions or even a billion years and humans didn't have a thing to do with most of it. Weren't even on the planet as humans for the vast majority of that time. And life developed, grew, evolved and flourished over that long time period.

This is true but he current rise in CO2 is manmade. The temperature rise since the industrial age may have catastrophic consequences with nearly 8 billion people now on the planet. That's a lot of people to feed. The exact details will unfold, but we're already seeing shifting rain patterns that are affecting where crops can grow and where people can live. Coastal cities may be inundated by sea level rise. I predict famine in some places, wars over resources such as water, and attempts at mass migration from countries that get the bad end of this. Scientists now concede that we will probably not get a runaway temperature rise and end up with a planet like Venus, but it appears from current evidence that it will be substantial.

You live in California. What do you think will happen if we don't get any more rain than we've gotten in the past three years? I see massive housing developments going on just to the west of me near Sacramento. There isn't enough water to support this. People need to start moving out of this state if this is going to continue.

alexol

You are correct - the US is pathetically far behind as far as public transport is concerned. The quicker we can give up truckers, the better.

In any case, the conversation was seemingly about cars rather than trucks, and the average driving distance by European drivers is not that far behind the US, 12000 vs 15000.

It is very hard to sell cars in Europe that don't get at least 40 to the gallon, and that includes cars of the same size as we have here.

Last time I was on the other side of the water, the rented 525 BMW (diesel) managed the equivalent of 48mpg over a two week period without much effort.

My brother drives a Citroen wagon and averages well over 50mpg despite his propensity to drive like a hooligan.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

therwol wrote:

This is true but he current rise in CO2 is manmade... (show quote)

The CO2 is causing deserts to shrink as vegetation feeding off that CO2 spreads. And droughts go in cycles too, and man doesn't control those either. The Los Angeles Basin was a land of streams, lakes, marshes and swamps after the last glacial advance started to retreat, almost semi-desert before the glaciers advanced.
Cycles, Cycles, Cycles and mankind is today only a part of the reasons. And don't get off on LA Smog, yeah it is worse more days of the year an now smells of exhaust but one Indian tribe who lived here named it "The Land Where The Smoke Never Rises" because the ring of mountains trapped the layers of air, with the smoke from grass fires etc. to produce nature made smog.
And the Great Smokey Mtns and Blue Ridge Mtns got their name because of nature made smog the main component of which came from the deep layers of rotting vegetation and fallen leaves on the mtns and in the valleys added to the high humidity of the area.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

TriX wrote:

And that is exactly why, unless new technology such as fusion becomes (finally) viable, we better start building more nuclear plants (and finally open the National repository for spent fuel). Or we can eventually freeze in the dark and walk. There is an end to fossil, and these price increases are just the beginning..

Fusion energy is now about 5 years away, and has been 5 years away for about the last 50 years.

Old Coot

robertjerl wrote:

...We can't afford enough gas to get there. Average today is $6+ for the mid level grades of gas.

Gee, I am so glad I don't commute 44 miles one way to teach anymore.
My "new" car I got in early Oct 2019 is still less than 6000 miles. Well, yes, Covid-19 gets a lot of credit for that. The doctor every so often, curb side pickup at Sam's and the market plus a drive through about 2x a week. The wife has done about the same in her car in that same time frame.

It's already there.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

alexol wrote:

You are correct - the US is pathetically far behin... (show quote)

Here in the US you aren't getting rid of the truckers. Unless you want to lay about 100x as much RR track and even then you need trucks from the trains to the stores.
Well I guess you could pass laws requiring everyone to move to the big cities and live in high rises but that might make it a little hard for the farmers to raise food or the ranchers to raise cattle etc.

The US is HUGE compared to European nations. Drive from San Francisco to Maine on I-80, it is over 3,200 miles. Do that from London east and you will be east of the Urals in Western Siberia.
When comparing distances in Europe to the US (and Canada) you are not comparing apples to oranges. Your are comparing apples to watermelons (and I don't mean little watermelons).

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

DirtFarmer wrote:

Fusion energy is now about 5 years away, and has been 5 years away for about the last 50 years.

Hey we have had Fusion energy since the first H-Bomb, it is just not in a very useable form.

alexol

robertjerl wrote:

Here in the US you aren't getting rid of the truck... (show quote)

To repeat in case you missed it...

"In any case, the conversation was seemingly about cars rather than trucks, and the average driving distance by European drivers is not that far behind the US, 12000 vs 15000."

Sure, the US is bigger than Europe, but very few private individuals rack up much bigger driving distances. I know everyone likes to think of the US as some kind of special case, but it isn't. Driving across Russia would be about 5,000 road miles, but so what?

SF to Maine may be 3200 miles, but how many private cars actually do that? About zero, which means that distance is irrelevant as far as private cars are concerned. We all drive around our little areas 99% of the time, with occasional forays further afield.