boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

The fact that Russia tried to influence the election is not in dispute. Why is this a surprise? We live in a free country (I thought). There is free speech(I thought). Because of these freedoms, that apply to every one. Russia. or any country, or any of it's citizens, they can promote any candidate they prefer. As long as these things are legal. They can't hack, but neither can any one else. And foreigners can even vote, if they are citizens. And of course any government can not comit espionage. This foreign influence is very easy to stop. Paper ballots- end of problem. BTW the US has tried to influence many countries elections. All this noise about Russian influence is purely political, and merely democrats making excuses for hillary's loss.

tradio Loc: Oxford, Ohio

100% correct.

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

“Because of these freedoms, that apply to every one.”. What the hell does this mean?

Of course, all governments commit espionage—if they break laws and are caught, there are ramifications.

The US has certainly corrupted many elections in foreign countries, and recently has paid a high price for doing so, but it continues

Russia or any country can favor any candidate; candidates cannot accept money or assistance from any foreign nation.

And if foreigners are citizens, then they aren’t foreigners, right?

“All this noise about Russian influence is purely political, and merely democrats making excuses for hillary's loss.” Not so, not nearly so, emphatically not so! Russia gave money and information in our election, and it is illegal for candidates to accept such money and assistance. In return for said money and assistance, Russia was negotiating issues on its own behalf, mostly reducing sanctions—before the persons were elected. In other words, several people in the Trump campaign were ‘pre-compromised,” and paid for it sometimes. They acted in russia’s behalf in altering the Republican platform. And several of them were working assiduously to serve Russia before they were empowered to do so. There is no question about this.

There certainly was collusion between the trump campaign, that much is obvious and certain. Did it rise to the level of ‘criminal conspiracy?’ Probably, but not certainly yet. Was trump persoally involved? We don’t know yet.

We know this much: paper ballots would be a big improvement, but trump likes things the way they are. Does he prefer this in order to see the votes manipulated? No proof yet, but probably yes.

Why else would he not work to get a better voting system? Why does he not instruct the FBI, the CIA and other intelligence agencies to work to improve things? Obviously, he’s happy with things as they are now, isn’t he?

That is very frightening.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

You make a lot of assumptions, and quote them as fact. If members of Trump's staff Colluded with Russians (which is not a ccrime). it does not mean that Trump colluded with Russians ( whih is not a crime). The special council may prosecute EVERY member of Trumps campaign. But untill he finds any crime committed by Trump, this whole thing will amount to nothing

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

I think the hole in the sand you have your head buried in has no windows!!! LoL

SS

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

Wow. you actually insulted me. I am hurt, my life is ruined. But nowhere did you say that my position is wrong.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

It will amount to getting many criminals off the street. You seem to like criminals!
Just a guess that there are more criminals waiting to be charged, indicted and sent to prison where they belong!
I’m a bit flabbergasted that it almost seems that only criminals could apply to work for trump, or at least he only hired criminals.
Nobody has said that Tramp is guilty of anything, but boy is there a lot of smoke swirling around him!!!! LoL
This isn’t really about Tramp, it’s about safeguarding Democracy. You know, that thing that so many here went to Vietnam to safeguard. Don’t slap those Vets in the face!!!
SS

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

Interesting that you could be so critical of my post without having read it. Amazing, actually!

I know reading can be difficult, and too much reading can tire the lips.

Let me simplify it for you:

“There certainly was collusion between the trump campaign, that much is obvious and certain. Did it rise to the level of ‘criminal conspiracy?’ Probably, but not certainly yet. Was trump personally involved? We don’t know yet.

Now, you said, “The special council may prosecute EVERY member of Trumps campaign. But until he finds any crime committed by Trump, this whole thing will amount to nothing.” No, not quite right. Mueller may prosecute Each and Every member to trump’s campaign, yes, absolutely correct.

Until he finds a crime committed by trump, trump is off the hook, right. However, the whole thing doesn’t about to nothing if trump isn’t charged. Those who might be charged, other than trump, will not find the whole thing amounts to nothing, and it will be very dangerous indeed for those charged.

Hope this clarification is helpful and save you from any unnecessary reading or thought.

I think we see eye to eye now.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

Along most of those lines we agree. but you have to remember that collusion is not a crime. The crime would be conspiracy, which is much more difficult to prove. Untill a crime has been committed there can be no conspiracy. What is collusion? Mere conversation is not illegal.

Twardlow Loc: Arkansas

I don’t understand. Do you not read my posts? Can it be possible you argue ove a post you never read?

Note this quote:

“There certainly was collusion between the trump campaign, that much is obvious and certain. Did it rise to the level of ‘criminal conspiracy?’ Probably, but not certainly yet. Was trump personally involved? We don’t know yet.”

Do we agree that this says collusion is not a crime? Can you understand that? DO you understand that? COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME!!!!!

Does the activity under discussion rise to the lever of Criminal Conspiracy? CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY IS A CRIME!!!!

Has there been a criminal conspiracy, I say Probably, possibly, but NOT CERTAIN YET!!!

Now here is where we disagree; I believe you can have a criminal conspiracy without a crime. Suppose you and I agree to kill Jeff Sessions. Suppose we make plans, buy guns, make get away plans, move to Washington D.C. with the intention of murdering Jeff Sessions. We have a conspiracy, right? But We Haven’t Performed A Crime, have we?

Do we think the Secret Service can’t arrest us until Jeff Sessions is dead?

I. d o n ‘ t. T h i n k. S o .

Let us agree. There has clearly been collusion, but Collusion Is Not A Crime!

Has there been criminal conspiracy? I say probably, but not proven in court yet—but if it happened It Would Be A Crime.

And lets let it lie right there.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

If the campaign accepted help from the Russians, it is a crime.

incognito

And If Trump survives he is just going to pardon them all so in that fact the investigation is a big waste of time and money. The real crime is that we as the American public will never know the real truth as it will all be swept under the rug and hidden just like the JFK assassination papers that have as of yet not been released.

Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa

Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa

Prove it. Spewing liberal rhetoric as if it were fact is your specialty. Show us the collusion proof. We are all waiting.

Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa

There certainly was collusion between the Trump campaign was your post, which is all liberal garbage. Show us the proof Trump colluded with Russians. If a member of his campaign spoke to a Russian how is that Trumps fault if he had no knowledge? This is more of the liberal the sky is falling. Give it a rest and wait for the facts to be released. I think shit stirring every day over what YOU think is you specialty. Liberals are the best reason I know of to vote Trump. Your posts are all negative speculation on republicans. I love the liberal, maybe it happened, it could have happened, possibly, probably, and you run with it like a fact. By the way, conspiracy to commit murder is a crime, but according to you, there is no crime until you kill Sessions. I really didn’t know you were that ignorant. Now I knows do so does everyone else. Your credibility is at Zero.