Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Check out Astronomical Photography Forum section of our forum.
Main Photography Discussion
david hamilton
Page <prev 2 of 5 next> last>>
Nov 26, 2016 20:50:07   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
oldtigger wrote:
humans are self serving animals with one exception:
as adults most of us are hard wired to protect children whether there are laws or not.
Thats the way it is and thats the way it needs to be.
Can't remember all the requests i've received to take a series of shots of children; i
just turn them all down. not worth the risk.


Could that be because you are not personally a self serving individual, but a responsible adult and citizen?

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 20:55:20   #
Jim Bob
 
Dedo wrote:
Like Jock Sturges' photography, Hamilton's work is considered artistic and valid. Personally, I get a queasy feeling
thinking about grown men interested in taking pictures of naked young girls.


By young girls, are you referring to minors?

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 21:02:11   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Jim Bob wrote:
By young girls, are you referring to minors?


In this case, I believe the answer was yes. Explicitly so. The photographs were "innocent" enough, but clearly on the edge of acceptable standards, but if he ever touched one of his subjects inappropriately that is a completely different matter. At the time, we thought he approached the limits of acceptability from the right side. Now it appears that may not have been the case.

But yes, adolescent and minors, if minors are defined as under eighteen.

Reply
Check out AI Artistry and Creation section of our forum.
Nov 26, 2016 21:05:46   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Peterff wrote:
.../...But yes, adolescent and minors, if minors are defined as under eighteen.

Generally in the US but in some state the consenting age is lower.

I France I think it is 16. In Japan 13...

To me it is not about age or age difference, it is about respect, it is always about respect.

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 21:11:38   #
Billyspad Loc: The Philippines
 
Peterff wrote:
In this case, I believe the answer was yes. Explicitly so. The photographs were "innocent" enough, but clearly on the edge of acceptable standards, but if he ever touched one of his subjects inappropriately that is a completely different matter. At the time, we thought he approached the limits of acceptability from the right side. Now it appears that may not have been the case.

But yes, adolescent and minors, if minors are defined as under eighteen.


Minors may be defined as under 18 in western society but that's not the case in other parts of the world. How do we know we are correct and what gives us the right to presume we are and judge others as wrong?
Americans who are fighting a war that cannot be won in Afghanistan and vote in Trump as a President are possibly not the right folks to listen to in matters of right and wrong or indeed common sense. Just a thought..........................................

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 21:13:48   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Generally in the US but in some state the consenting age is lower.

I France I think it is 16. In Japan 13...

To me it is not about age or age difference, it is about respect, it is always about respect.


Absolument, mon ami!

Respect, along with integrity, are the highest orders in any relationship.

Well said!

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 21:16:08   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Peterff wrote:
In this case, I believe the answer was yes. Explicitly so. The photographs were "innocent" enough, but clearly on the edge of acceptable standards, but if he ever touched one of his subjects inappropriately that is a completely different matter. At the time, we thought he approached the limits of acceptability from the right side. Now it appears that may not have been the case.

But yes, adolescent and minors, if minors are defined as under eighteen.


In the UK a man was charged with possession of CP because of 4 books he bought one of those was "age of innocence". That seems to add to the appearance that it was the wrong side.

Reply
Check out Black and White Photography section of our forum.
Nov 26, 2016 21:39:04   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
blackest wrote:
In the UK a man was charged with possession of CP because of 4 books he bought one of those was "age of innocence". That seems to add to the appearance that it was the wrong side.


Yes, things, times and societal values change. Even as an early twenty-something year old I was a little disturbed by 'Dreams of a Young Girl", but I appreciated the imagery and was too young to think about sexual predation. I assumed the "Age of Innocence" viewpoint, and had a friend who did nude modeling at the local art college to earn money. She was also a student and friend, so it was interesting. She was totally cool, it was the guys that had a problem with taking photographs or painting her nude, and then hanging out at the pub afterwards and working out how to reconcile or deal with the relationship.

I even did a little nude modeling myself for some friends at the art college, which was a little disconcerting for about two minutes for everybody, until we all put the context in place. Then it became easy.

That was all, or mostly in a controlled environment, at least from the women's perspective. My first nude modelling exercise was just for a female flatmate. She didn't ask, just mumbled that she had a project that was frustrating her and needed a model, so I volunteered. Once she got her breath back and thought about it, it made perfect sense. Forty something years later she is still one of my (and my wife's) best friends.

This is interesting, but very complicated. I have no issues with nudity, but would want reliable and trustworthy witnesses present. It can go south very fast, especially with juveniles.

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 22:24:30   #
romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI
 
blackest wrote:
In the UK a man was charged with possession of CP because of 4 books he bought one of those was "age of innocence". That seems to add to the appearance that it was the wrong side.


But was he convicted or were the charges dropped?

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 22:46:14   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
romanticf16 wrote:
But was he convicted or were the charges dropped?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/british-photographer-david-hamilton-dies-paris-police-source/


"In 2010, a man was convicted of level 1 child pornography for owning four books bought in a London bookshop, including Mr Hamilton's The Age of Innocence.

His conviction was overturned on appeal in 2011, with the judge calling his conviction "very unfair" and criticising the Crown Prosecution Service, saying if it "wishes to test whether the pictures in the books are indecent, the right way to deal with the matter is by way of prosecuting the publisher or retailer – not the individual purchaser".

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 22:58:21   #
Dedo Loc: NY, Uruguay
 
Jim Bob wrote:
By young girls, are you referring to minors?


Yes, otherwise I would have written women.

Reply
Check out True Macro-Photography Forum section of our forum.
Nov 26, 2016 23:07:54   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
blackest wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/british-photographer-david-hamilton-dies-paris-police-source/


"In 2010, a man was convicted of level 1 child pornography for owning four books bought in a London bookshop, including Mr Hamilton's The Age of Innocence.

His conviction was overturned on appeal in 2011, with the judge calling his conviction "very unfair" and criticising the Crown Prosecution Service, saying if it "wishes to test whether the pictures in the books are indecent, the right way to deal with the matter is by way of prosecuting the publisher or retailer – not the individual purchaser".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/british... (show quote)


Exactly. For a book that is widely published and can be purchased in a high street store, the purchaser should not be called to account for the purchase.

I own many books that some might consider dubious, politically or otherwise, but they were published, sold and purchased legally. That is very different from publishing, distributing or purchasing illicit material. Anyone remember "the little red school-book" which was essentially 1970's communist propaganda? I still have a copy, bought it to see what was being said, not because I followed its philosophies. Haven't touched it in forty years till now, but it is probably considered subversive by some. Can't remember what it says, although I might take a look just for curiosity's sake....

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 23:13:20   #
oldtigger Loc: Roanoke Virginia-USA
 
If anyone chooses to provide a portfolio of 'the next little miss universe' i strongly suggest
they have releases, the parents in attendance , your own assistant and retain the originals.
It just might save you some court time.

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 23:24:32   #
romanticf16 Loc: Commerce Twp, MI
 
blackest wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/british-photographer-david-hamilton-dies-paris-police-sourc
"In 2010, a man was convicted of level 1 child pornography for owning four books bought in a London bookshop, including Mr Hamilton's The Age of Innocence.
His conviction was overturned on appeal in 2011, with the judge calling his conviction "very unfair" and criticising the Crown Prosecution Service, saying if it "wishes to test whether the pictures in the books are indecent, the right way to deal with the matter is by way of prosecuting the publisher or retailer – not the individual purchaser".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/25/british... (show quote)


I read the article. There is no mention of an autopsy on the 85 year old Hamilton. Did he have an incurable and painful disease? Was he suffering from depression? The bias of the article implies he took his life to avoid accusations from people who had not come forward for over 40 years. And their parents allowed them to be photographed by Hamilton without a chaperone? It almost sounds like a copycat of the Cosby scandal without a defendant. But in these cases all accusations will never be resolved, but the accusers may sell books, appear on TV and in newspapers? Take it for what it's worth, eh?

Reply
Nov 26, 2016 23:44:15   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
romanticf16 wrote:
I read the article. There is no mention of an autopsy on the 85 year old Hamilton. Did he have an incurable and painful disease? Was he suffering from depression? The bias of the article implies he took his life to avoid accusations from people who had not come forward for over 40 years. And their parents allowed them to be photographed by Hamilton without a chaperone? It almost sounds like a copycat of the Cosby scandal without a defendant. But in these cases all accusations will never be resolved, but the accusers may sell books, appear on TV and in newspapers? Take it for what it's worth, eh?
I read the article. There is no mention of an auto... (show quote)


These things are complicated, and it is early days. I'm sure more details will emerge, but it is to soon to render judgement. He was 83, not 85. It is so easy for details to change when copied...

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 5 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.