CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Not sure what you mean. Flickr has nothing to do with copyright. You own the copyright the instant you trip the shutter (unless you are working for a client who owns the © by agreement).

Now, pursuing a copyright is a much different story - too involved for a simple post here.

drjuice

One thing that may not be obvious to you is that, if you license the pictures, you get $??? or $???? in exchange for letting them use the pictures for, say, nnnn brochures + one website between now and the end of 2013 (or whatever you choose).

If the issue of giving away previous pictures comes up, the proper answer is that, when you gave away the previous pictures, you were learning and now that you feel comfortable with what you're doing, you are paid for your work. It's like the difference between going to school and what you do after you graduate.

And, finally, you might want to be prepared for pushback on the $$. I've found that with my volunteer team doing websites for 501(c)3 organizations, I get pushback from commercial organizations who expect me to to do do my "regular" business for free. NOT! And, when commercial organizations bring up the issue, I make it very clear that the team does the free work ONLY for 501(c)3 organizations and that's part of what the five of us regard as our community service. None of us have kids, so we found this way to pay back our community. And, it turns out that often that's the thing that causes potential clients to choose my "non-volunteer" organization to do their $$ web work for them.

I'm jes' sayin'.

v

sirlensalot Loc: Arizona

Maybe as an option you could split the difference. Offer them up for a fixed percentage for each membership gained as the result of the new marketing promo? That way your rep for giving away photos technically remains in tact. Of course you must have a high level of trust between parties for it to work. Suggest copyrighting all shots as a minimal source of protection, along with a contract. However the method, compensation would be appropriate. I am in the similar position trying to break out from giving it away to deciding on market value. I have decided to do it in steps over a two year period. Good luck whatever your decision.

Big Daddy Loc: Near Cleveland

I think you should be paid something but human nature never fails. I would bet that as soon as you ask for money they will show you the door. This has ALWAYS been my experience...Good luck!

Jambulee Loc: San Antonio del Mar,Tijuana,Mex

I have a question for Captain C; does he have the right to take pictures of private property and sell them to a third party without a property release signed by someone who has the authority to do so?

TheRabidOne

I am in the same situation as you but with another form of art (oil painting). When it comes to being compensated for your work the answer is, "Yes one should be compensated." I've talked at length with several well informed individuals in my area of interest and all have said the same thing on compensation. The problem is 'how much' is always tough to figure until you feel comfortable at the price you may charge. You can always come down, but never increase price. At any point you increase fees you may think a returning client may balk at the price increase (so long as it isn't horrendous). Your equipment costs money, prints cost, as a 'budding pro' you may want to get insurance on your gear, and that isn't free. BTW there are companies offering ins. just for photographers & gear and pricing is not too bad. In my case, my trying to appraise my artwork is hard to do, and I've been advised to seek out an art appraiser to get a general baseline. After all, your time and effort and to an extent your creative soul is in every photo; so a fee needs to be charged. And at some point you may have to get a third person to examine your work for establishing a baseline value for the market. Compartmentalizing your work is a necessary 'evil' of sorts. Photos for relative's weddings, etc. is one thing. That is a personal gift from you to them. And the same can be said about friends. Do some research on the local market costs for doing the type of photography you are doing, and since you are 'new' to the business side you could figure charging something 85% or so of the going market price until the demand for your work increases as others in the arena see your work. I have learned that while the copyright is instant when you create something (Common Law Copyright), and any photos need to be officially copyrighted or a copyright attorney will be less likely to represent you in case is someone infringes on your work. I had a set of pictures 'stolen' in the past. This was during the film era. The person took a copy, scanned it, and Photoshopped it into an act of Defamation. With physically owning the negatives, along with witnesses of the situation photographed the remedy was better founded. Now with digital artwork it is easier to 'steal' from someone else, hence proper copyrighting is a must. And I never in a million years thought my simple photo would be stolen, especially since it was pre-digital and I held the physical negative. But I didn't count on one of the two existing prints being digitally scanned. Now a Copyright can be submitted in batches as they now accept zipped files online as official submission. You can find 'boilerplate' forms for basic releases, etc. and modify to fit you specifically. Your state should have those online, if not do a search for boilerplate legal forms to get an idea of how to construct the needed forms. Above all, as I have also been advised, never say what you charged someone else for your work to anyone, always say you would have to give only a price range until you saw the specifics of the job. I learned the hard way early on when doing programming for a company on a contractual basis. I lost 18K because the project took longer than the company stated it would because they kept making changes to the program specs.; and my hours went way beyond what I figured on at the beginning. That was my fault for not limiting the number of changes that could be made and over a set number or type of changes there would incur additional charges for time spent. That was the last time I did that. If anyone gives you grief of a price increase, just remind them that gasoline also goes up and you have to drive to and from the job site and to a photo processor if you don't print your own. If they get the digital pic only, you still have travel time along with materials cost. It is sad that one must take measures to prevent theft of intellectual property, but that is the world we now live in. JMHO, YMMV

Timarron Loc: Southwest

First, here is another shot of the same hole, with a better sky. Thanks to those who pointed out the problem with the first one and to those who took a shot at improving it. Better?

Secondly, wow! So many knowledgable people with sound advice and perspective on this. I am so impressed with everyones willingness to help with this and to provide such thoughtful and helpful suggestions. I am definitely going to pursue some kind of financial deal for the photos I have. If there is interest, I will return with a post of how the negotiation goes. You guys....every last one of you who responded.... are awesome!

By the way, I found this license fee estimator online. According to it, licensing photos for use in an Insert/Brochure, for a Duration of 1 year and a Circulation of less than 25,000 would result in a fee of $186.20. Pretty specific.

Attached file:
(Download)

SteveR Loc: Michigan

I belonged to a Club once and they never forgot to add a thing to my bill. From the looks of your picture, a pro would have charged hundreds if not more to provide these pictures. Don't feel shy.

Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.

Take the Captins Advise. He's right on. Dont give your work away. I retired in 98. 39 years a wedding photog.Only time I ever worked for cost was for a church for their 250th anv. They even hired a helocopter for shots of the church.I never made a dime.They said the printer needed the neg's. I never got them back. Live & learn.Now at 81 Im vice pres. of a historic soc. Take all the photos for them free of charge. Go figure.So do as I say not as I do.

photojet Loc: TX/CO

NO WAY. With the money that the club charges for dues and the real estate guy make, they can dang well afford to pay you. Check with a local commercial photographer and see what he charges. Charge the same or maybe just a little less. Make sure you get credit for the photos where ever they are published. I did weddings and portraits for 20 plus years and let myself get used a few times until I got tougher. Best of luck.

photo guy Loc: Chippewa Falls, WI

I do photography for my local paid (city) fire dept as my way of giving back to the community [my family has a lot history in the community and a few have been vol. firefighters in the past]. I was informed of a person looking for people to volunteer photograpy for a new event in the city [on the edge of the city in the city limits] that was open to the public. I went and checked it out and decided to donate my services as a way to get my work and name out with the agreement that I got free admission to the event and any photo used would have my name with it. When I got done doing the photos, I downloaded them to my computer at home and put my name on all the ones that I would give to the lead person who I was dealing with. I gave him a cd of 10 photo (with my name on each photo where it could not be cropped out without ruining the photo) and told him if he needed any more to contact me but there would be a charge for any additional. No word was recieved so I checked out the event website. Low and behold: they were Selling all the photos that the other photographers there were taking but hand NONE of mine since I had my name on them. Lesson Learned: I Won't Be Doing Any Further Business With This Person or Group.

Lazy Old Coot Loc: Gainesville, Florida

Here is something else you may want to consider. Just about every Real Estate broker I've ever known has at least one photographer and most have two or more that shoot exteriors of the houses they list. They also have them shoot the interiors of their more expensive listings. Shooting interiors that show off a house to it's best advantage requires experience and lighting equipment. I expect the broker could get whoever he's currently using, to do the golf course shots he wants for no more than the cost of doing an interior shoot and perhaps even less. I suspect they approached you because the course manager knew you already had what they needed, had given photos to friends, and would probably do the same for the manager or broker. It's also likely that any broker that's building homes on a golf course is already using an advertising agency to design brochures etc. They may have expected to just have to reimburse you for the cost of materials. Obviously this is speculation on my part. If it does turn out that they do expect to have to pay you for the photos It would be very helpful if you could find out what the broker is paying the guy or guys that shoot his listings to give you at least some idea how much to charge him for your photos. ...... Just some random thoughts. ........ Coot