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Another instance of questionable police action
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Jul 11, 2013 10:22:58   #
SpeedyWilson Loc: Upstate South Carolina
 
Here's one about a mother and daughter who were arrested due to a "computer glitch" about a "stolen car:"

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/07/10/beauty-queen-claims-she-was-humiliated-by-nypd-officers/

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Jul 11, 2013 10:25:39   #
NOSLEEP Loc: Calgary
 
Bruce M. wrote:
Whoa! Whoa! Hold your horses everybody. This was a set up for sure, but it was done well. No abuse was shown to the officers. They did not see the camera until late in the clip, so.... They do have a job to do, we authorize and pay for that job. They must, however, play by the rules, if they in fact know them. Here they blatantly ignored them. The driver was polite and obedient, with some prodding by the sheriff or deputy, whatever. We don't have these rights or liberties here in Canada, we MUST comply with the officer's word. You need to protect these rights or you will become more of a Police State than you are now. This is a good way of doing it peacefully, and publicly. Good on ya' mate!
Whoa! Whoa! Hold your horses everybody. This was... (show quote)


We do not have these rights in Canada?. Yes we do.

"The police can approach you and ask you questions but they must let you go on your way, unless they arrest you or they have grounds to detain you.

The police have the right to detain you if they are investigating a crime and they have a "reasonable suspicion" that you are connected to the crime. They also have the right to detain you at a "roadblock" if they are following up on a report that, a short time before, someone saw people nearby with handguns.

If the police think you might have committed a crime, you should tell them who you are. But, in most cases, you do not have to answer any questions. You can tell the police that you do not want to say anything until you speak to a lawyer.

However, if you have been in a car accident, the police might ask you for information that they require for an accident report. If you do not answer their questions, you could be charged with an offence.

Anything you say to the police might be used as evidence against you in court. The only statements that cannot be used against you are those, like an accident report, which you must make by law. Even something you said before you were arrested, or while you were in the police car, could be used against you. This is true even for a statement you have not signed.

But, if the police have detained or arrested you, they should stop questioning you as soon as you ask for a lawyer. Just say, "I want to speak to a lawyer." You do not have to say anything else. If the police continue to question you, do not say anything. Just ask again to speak to a lawyer.

In Ontario, Legal Aid pays lawyers known as "duty counsel" to provide free legal advice, 24 hours a day. Ask the police for the toll-free telephone number for duty counsel. Or contact a lawyer you know.

In most cases, a lawyer will advise you not to talk to the police. This is usually the best advice. If you do choose to talk to the police, keep in mind that giving false information can be a criminal offence. And if you lie to the police, the fact that you lied might be used as evidence against you.

If you try to stop other people from cooperating with the police, you could be charged with obstructing justice or obstructing the police.

Once you have spoken to a lawyer, the police may continue to ask you questions. Even if you say that you do not want to answer, they can continue to ask. However, you have the right to remain silent and do not have to answer."

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Jul 11, 2013 11:38:42   #
Bruce M. Loc: Longueuil, Quebec, CANADA
 
NOSLEEP wrote:
We do not have these rights in Canada?. Yes we do.

"The police can approach you and ask you questions but they must let you go on your way, unless they arrest you or they have grounds to detain you.

The police have the right to detain you if they are investigating a crime and they have a "reasonable suspicion" that you are connected to the crime. They also have the right to detain you at a "roadblock" if they are following up on a report that, a short time before, someone saw people nearby with handguns.

If the police think you might have committed a crime, you should tell them who you are. But, in most cases, you do not have to answer any questions. You can tell the police that you do not want to say anything until you speak to a lawyer.

However, if you have been in a car accident, the police might ask you for information that they require for an accident report. If you do not answer their questions, you could be charged with an offence.

Anything you say to the police might be used as evidence against you in court. The only statements that cannot be used against you are those, like an accident report, which you must make by law. Even something you said before you were arrested, or while you were in the police car, could be used against you. This is true even for a statement you have not signed.

But, if the police have detained or arrested you, they should stop questioning you as soon as you ask for a lawyer. Just say, "I want to speak to a lawyer." You do not have to say anything else. If the police continue to question you, do not say anything. Just ask again to speak to a lawyer.

In Ontario, Legal Aid pays lawyers known as "duty counsel" to provide free legal advice, 24 hours a day. Ask the police for the toll-free telephone number for duty counsel. Or contact a lawyer you know.

In most cases, a lawyer will advise you not to talk to the police. This is usually the best advice. If you do choose to talk to the police, keep in mind that giving false information can be a criminal offence. And if you lie to the police, the fact that you lied might be used as evidence against you.

If you try to stop other people from cooperating with the police, you could be charged with obstructing justice or obstructing the police.

Once you have spoken to a lawyer, the police may continue to ask you questions. Even if you say that you do not want to answer, they can continue to ask. However, you have the right to remain silent and do not have to answer."
We do not have these rights in Canada?. Yes we do.... (show quote)

This may be true in Alberta and the rest of Canada, but I am in Quebec, and we are a Distinct Society according to Mr. Harper. This "Distinctness" permits a whole new set of rules and rights, notwithstanding those of the rest of Canada, MY COUNTRY. I don't know why. Well, that's not true but it is a matter for another time and forum.

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Jul 11, 2013 11:42:34   #
eye2eye Loc: Chicago, Illinois
 
Bruce M. wrote:
This may be true in Alberta and the rest of Canada, but I am in Quebec, and we are a Distinct Society according to Mr. Harper. This "Distinctness" permits a whole new set of rules and rights, notwithstanding those of the rest of Canada, MY COUNTRY. I don't know why. Well, that's not true but it is a matter for another time and forum.
Ahhhh, Quebec! The France wanna-be!

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Jul 11, 2013 11:45:01   #
Bruce M. Loc: Longueuil, Quebec, CANADA
 
eye2eye wrote:
Ahhhh, Quebec! The France wanna-be!


Good Lord man. You can't say that! It is politically à gauche. Even the Die Hard Separatists would take offence. France pah!

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Jul 11, 2013 11:50:01   #
eye2eye Loc: Chicago, Illinois
 
Bruce M. wrote:
Good Lord man. You can't say that! It is politically à gauche. Even the Die Hard Separatists would take offence. France pah!
I live in Chicago. The New York-L.A. wanna be! Touche'!

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Jul 11, 2013 15:47:28   #
mslubner Loc: Redskin Ridge, Texas
 
What I saw was a "know-it-all" kid who acted suspiciously with his responses to the officer, and had I been the officer, I would have been alerted to someone who had something to hide as well. That "Constitutional rights" stuff usually comes out of people with things to hide. If a person rolls the window down as asked, the entire stop is usually ended within a few moments or minutes. As for the asking of an ID...where I live you are required to carry a valid ID and present it when asked, even randomly, and if you don't, you can be detained, taken to the station and held until an ID is made through the computer system. I have no objection...I am not hiding anything. The kid might have been within rights, but he got exactly what he asked for with his disrespectful attitude. I don't advocate taking crap from cops, but the cop wasn't disrespectful when he made the stop. The kid pushed for it. I have no sympathy for the kid.

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Jul 11, 2013 16:41:30   #
Croce Loc: Earth
 
mslubner wrote:
What I saw was a "know-it-all" kid who acted suspiciously with his responses to the officer, and had I been the officer, I would have been alerted to someone who had something to hide as well. That "Constitutional rights" stuff usually comes out of people with things to hide. If a person rolls the window down as asked, the entire stop is usually ended within a few moments or minutes. As for the asking of an ID...where I live you are required to carry a valid ID and present it when asked, even randomly, and if you don't, you can be detained, taken to the station and held until an ID is made through the computer system. I have no objection...I am not hiding anything. The kid might have been within rights, but he got exactly what he asked for with his disrespectful attitude. I don't advocate taking crap from cops, but the cop wasn't disrespectful when he made the stop. The kid pushed for it. I have no sympathy for the kid.
What I saw was a "know-it-all" kid who a... (show quote)


Sure the kid should have jumped to and allowed the police and the dogs and all to tear his car apart right? I mean he must have been hiding something right? After all only guilty people assert their rights huh? Guilt by assertion of right. Sure, the kid was hiding behind his rights? Right? You make me sick.

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Jul 11, 2013 16:48:55   #
gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch
 
mslubner wrote:
What I saw was a "know-it-all" kid who acted suspiciously with his responses to the officer, and had I been the officer, I would have been alerted to someone who had something to hide as well. That "Constitutional rights" stuff usually comes out of people with things to hide. If a person rolls the window down as asked, the entire stop is usually ended within a few moments or minutes. As for the asking of an ID...where I live you are required to carry a valid ID and present it when asked, even randomly, and if you don't, you can be detained, taken to the station and held until an ID is made through the computer system. I have no objection...I am not hiding anything. The kid might have been within rights, but he got exactly what he asked for with his disrespectful attitude. I don't advocate taking crap from cops, but the cop wasn't disrespectful when he made the stop. The kid pushed for it. I have no sympathy for the kid.
What I saw was a "know-it-all" kid who a... (show quote)


This attitude and mode of operation helps make it possible for cops like these to exist.

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Jul 11, 2013 17:12:03   #
mslubner Loc: Redskin Ridge, Texas
 
How very sad. I only gave my opinion. I respected yours. I still do. We simply differ in how we see it. I do not feel the need to berate you, or disrespect you. I do not understand your rage at a difference of interpretation. May I point out, no dogs search, or search or further words would have occurred if the boy had simply rolled down the window nicely when asked? But, I was not there and I have no idea what was said or done off-camera so perhaps, I am wrong. But from what I did see and hear, I formed my opinion. So sad you would blow out over someone not sharing your own opinion. :-(

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Jul 11, 2013 17:19:01   #
NOSLEEP Loc: Calgary
 
mslubner wrote:
How very sad. I only gave my opinion. I respected yours. I still do. We simply differ in how we see it. I do not feel the need to berate you, or disrespect you. I do not understand your rage at a difference of interpretation. May I point out, no dogs search, or search or further words would have occurred if the boy had simply rolled down the window nicely when asked? But, I was not there and I have no idea what was said or done off-camera so perhaps, I am wrong. But from what I did see and hear, I formed my opinion. So sad you would blow out over someone not sharing your own opinion. :-(
How very sad. I only gave my opinion. I respected ... (show quote)


You know what they say. Opinions are like **s h***s...
Sometimes a good description helps...

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Jul 11, 2013 17:51:57   #
TrainNut Loc: Ridin' the rails
 
Croce wrote:
Sure the kid should have jumped to and allowed the police and the dogs and all to tear his car apart right? I mean he must have been hiding something right? After all only guilty people assert their rights huh? Guilt by assertion of right. Sure, the kid was hiding behind his rights? Right? You make me sick.


:thumbup:

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Jul 11, 2013 20:17:22   #
Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert
 
EdJ0307 wrote:
Only watched the first 30 or so seconds but looked like to me the dumb-ass kid just wanted to start something so his video would go viral on youtube. Checked the youtube and it has over 3 million hits. Accomplished his goal. Good job.


I felt like you did Doc in the beginning but I changed my mind ..... you may wanna watch the whole video

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Jul 12, 2013 13:15:01   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
gmcase wrote:
I wasn't advocating it being done without due process. Any funds they paid in personally would obviously be theirs but matching funds paid from taxpayer's money ( the ones being abused) would not be paid to them. The consequences of violations of citizen's rights with the implied threat of force is not to be taken lightly. They must be held to a very high standard.

One of the cops in this video, as they were illegally rifling through the car's interior, even stated the kid knew his constitutional rights which is an indictment on their very actions as they knew they were violating the constitutional rights of the illegally detained citizen. I have no sympathy for brown shirt goons with or without badges.
I wasn't advocating it being done without due proc... (show quote)



Interesting clarification, but we ares till at odds about it. The part of pension funds paid by the institution is really deferred pay. Depriving a person of this is the equivalent of fining him hundreds of thousands of dollars, considering the appreciation of the funds over the years. Depriving anyone of life, liberty, or property without due course of law is a violation of the Fifth Amendment.

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Jul 12, 2013 13:45:57   #
gmcase Loc: Galt's Gulch
 
PNagy wrote:
Interesting clarification, but we ares till at odds about it. The part of pension funds paid by the institution is really deferred pay. Depriving a person of this is the equivalent of fining him hundreds of thousands of dollars, considering the appreciation of the funds over the years. Depriving anyone of life, liberty, or property without due course of law is a violation of the Fifth Amendment.


I don't know for sure what technical language or statute covers contributions by the public employer. I imagine it varies from entity to entity. Having said that and to clearly state I absolutely agree with NOT violating the constitution in response to punishing those who do I propose deferred pay is forfeited by statute and employment agreements when the person is removed from duty for flagrantly and with malice violating a citizen's constitutional rights or other defined abuse of authority. I am not trying to pound a cop who inadvertently errors but only the goons with "I'm the law' ego trips who violate the rights of a citizen or other resident within US territory. The constitution doesn't limit it's protection to citizens only. I know some wish it did but it doesn't and shouldn't be the case.

In the case of this video at least one cop clearly indicted himself with his own words. He knew he was violating the rights of his victim of roadside piracy and terror. This bastard needs to be booted off the force in shame and held personally liable.

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