Just to be clear, my claim of obfuscation was one of the result to me. I'm not trying to say this report was an intentional attempt to mislead, only that I don't immediately take it as face value just because it's there. It doesn't clear the air (pun? Who knows) for me.
The per capita report is a good example of obfuscation, in my opinion. Without trying to assign intent in any of the authors of the report, I will say in my mind, which seeks a clear t***h, there is an effect leading me away from a "t***h" I can rely on.
According to the report, there are 13 countries below the USA. Most have many less people in their population, so, on paper this all seems like a cut and dried example that the US is acting willy nilly about the world's condition. My problem lies in areas in which I'm not educated, so I'll just reiterate that these things just "seem" a certain way for me.
Thing one: to what measure does manufacturing capacity come to bear? Since countries with low manufacturing capacity use goods that are manufactured in other countries, should a percentage of the results be offset from the manufacturing country, and applied to the population of the non-manufacturing country?
Thing two: the countries that use manufactured goods, but are listed as low per capita results in the report, get those goods to them somehow, should there be an offset for causing the carbon dioxide increase as a result of t***sportation/shipping? The goods don't get to those countries on camel caravans and wind-operated sailing ships.
Thing three: to what degree are nations responsible for their manufacturing facilities within the borders of other countries?
Much more to discuss along these lines, but I have to go to work now. Perhaps somebody will further the conversation and help generate some new thoughts.
Thanks for the links, denny. Made for interesting reading. Below is the TED talk I saw on the subject, which, so far, is the most balanced look into EVs I've seen.
https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rkMy belief that pursuing EVs as vigorously as we are is going to hit us hard with unwanted repercussions is more a matter of a personal faith I've had develop after hearing a variety of sources produce a variety of opinions. In my experience, both pro and con are equally represented.
This produces a problem for me, because I think these are scientific questions with scientific answers, but what we are actually seeing is not a consensus at all. Hopefully, all sides are using t h e scientific process. They should have observed anecdotal data, and from that developed a possible hypothesis that might explain their observations. Having done that, they should have created an experiment designed to disprove their hypothesis. They would have to have the discipline to correct themselves if they found out their presumptions were wrong.
Since there is absolutely no way I can know if all sources are conducting themselves scientifically, it becomes my responsibility to assign a hierarchy of belief within my mind, thereby maintaining order. Therefore, for now I maintain the belief that we won't be able to adjust fast enough to avoid catastrophe if there are only electric vehicles on the road.
There are many t***hs I hold only as a matter of faith, since I've never done anything myself to produce them. The speed of light being 186,000 miles per second is one such fact held in faith. That the Earth is round is another such faithful fact.
Anyway, thanks for the thoughts your links generated.
Hey, denny, I'll get around to reading those links sometime tinight, i hope.. Sometimes I'm not really sure about everything, but I enjoy reading the ins and outs of an issue to try to come to a conclusion. My current beliefs are in large part due to some TED Talks on YouTube. About the cobalt mines, I'm sure they are hell on Earth.
Would be a great place to take a new shot for comparison.
Avoid that harsh shadow line if possible. The shots without it are a step above.
Wow. What was that line from The Hunt For Red October? "Oh, Yuri, have you lost another submarine?" Something like that.
Here is a reply I posted the other day in a subject called EV hauling (I think) in the Attic. The subject there was how poorly an electric vehicle did hauling a heavy load. I think c*****e c****e and the solutions should be discussed together, so I provide a copy here.
The original post:
This is just one example of the realities of electric vehicles coming to the light of day. They also generate more greenhouse gasses while procuring the necessary raw materials to make the batteries. One such material, cobalt, is mined by the poorest of people in the Congo for pennies (or monetary equivalent), in vast, unsafe open pit mines. After the useful life of the battery is passed, a new one must be bought for thousands of dollars. The old one is a toxic lump.
I've no conflict with the concept that c*****e c****e is happening, but everything they're doing about it is making things worse. There are estimated to be about one hundred million gas or diesel vehicles on the road. No power grid in existence can handle that amount of energy need. Coal plants will be fired up again. The environment will be worse.
Nice. I grew up in Kennewick and Pasco. Before this bridge was built, riding with my dad over the old, two-lane bridge (I was a child) was a scary trip. Oncoming cars were mere inches from the driver. At least a couple times, he shattered the passenger side mirror in a glorious explosion.
At that time, we called the old one "The Old Bridge", and the larger bridge at the west end of town was "The New Bridge". After the cable Bridge was built, we called it "The New Bridge", and the other one became "The Blue Bridge".
Unfortunately, I hadn't yet discovered photography, and I don't have pictures of any of them.
Best Carlsbad shots I've seen.
This is just one example of the realities of electric vehicles coming to the light of day. They also generate more greenhouse gasses while procuring the necessary raw materials to make the batteries. One such material, cobalt, is mined by the poorest of people in the Congo for pennies (or monetary equivalent), in vast, unsafe open pit mines. After the useful life of the battery is passed, a new one must be bought for thousands of dollars. The old one is a toxic lump.
I've no conflict with the concept that c*****e c****e is happening, but everything they're doing about it is making things worse. There are estimated to be about one hundred million gas or diesel vehicles on the road. No power grid in existence can handle that amount of energy need. Coal plants will be fired up again. The environment will be worse.