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Posts for: Jay_UH
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Mar 14, 2022 20:36:16   #
larryepage wrote:
Focusing on night sky images is always a challenge, and is the main skill that needs to be mastered in order to get good images. Your 300mm lens does not produce a particularly large image of the moon, so focus can be difficult. I'd suggest that you switch to Live View and use the "+" button to assist you with manual focus. Very small movements to the focus ring are going to result in significant focus changes. Remember that autofocus lenses will focus past infinity to allow the AF system to work, so it is essentially impossible to prefocus accurately by looking at the distance scale on the lens.

My suggestion for a starting exposure is ISO 400, shutter 1/800, aperture f/8 for a starting point. As the moon is closer to the horizon, you'll need more light. Do not use Auto White Balance. There is simply not enough lighted area in your frame for the system to make a good choice. Use fixed Daylight WB instead. The sunlight hitting the moon is the same as that hitting the earth at noon on a clear day. Lunar material ranges from medium to dark gray. Photographs brought back by those who have been there show the surface to have a slightly orange or brownish-orange tint.

Paul is correct in suggesting that you use a different Picture Control setup. Contrast, saturation, and sharpness are all cranked way too far back to be good for this task. If you don't want to edit the components, I'd suggest that you go all the way to Vivid. Even then, you may want more contrast and sharpness. (Remember...these adjustments are all subtractive. They are the one place where you can crank them all the way up, if desired, without introducing ugly artifacts.) Save Normal and Flat for when you are doing starscapes and need to reduce the contrast to get a viewable preview or review image on your rear display.

If you decide to get a 200-500, you will be pleased at the significantly larger image at 500mm. Image stabilization in that lens is also good enough to allow you to do these photographs handheld.

I find working to capture good pictures of the moon is more fun than generally recognized. Enjoy the journey as you continue learning.
Focusing on night sky images is always a challenge... (show quote)


Thank you for your feedback/suggestions.

I do actually focus using Live View with the focus point magnified to maximum and have experienced how sensitive manual focusing can be.

For now, I will prioritize technique and when I know my shots are more or less the maximum capabilities of my gear for given conditions will then consider PP.

Due to weight, I have already decided against the option of the 200-500 - thus was initially considering a crop body as an alternative for "reach".
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Mar 14, 2022 19:59:33   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
I think the edges being sharper than the 'closer' details shows it does, in fact, matter where you focus. I think a smaller aperture, such as f/11, also will change the visual results. You'll have to confirm or disprove in practice.


I assumed that the moon being so distant, as long as the lens was focused to infinity, all visible surfaces would be in focus. I learnt something new - thank you.
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Mar 13, 2022 20:59:45   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Given my own experience with older Canon FD lenses on Sony 24MP sensors, no. That is, the same lens on a 20MP vs 26MP sensor will give more options for a 'larger' crop, but you won't seen a visual difference in the details.

As suggested on the details highlighted in the prior post, you've either maximized the results already, nor might play a bit on some subtle changes in the exposure and the 'where' to focus. Only comparative results can confirm if there are any differences to be had from changing technique with the same equipment.
Given my own experience with older Canon FD lenses... (show quote)


I sincerely appreciate you sharing your assessment based on your experience - it has relieved me of much of the GAS portion of my journey.

Is my understanding correct that when photographing the moon with my 300mm lens, if focused to infinity it doesn't matter 'where' on the moon I focus?
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Mar 13, 2022 20:43:58   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Jay, an example helps. Are you shooting from a tripod and manually focusing via Live View and zoomed 10x to view the moon in the LCD display while focusing? The EXIF in the NEF says the image is manually focus. The Picture Control is Neutral that has only a +2 (low) amount of sharpening if just converted from the NEF.

I did some minor updates in Capture NX-D as my LR6 can't edit the D500 NEF directly. I increased the brightness of the image and some sharpening and cropped to look at the details.

A few ideas to consider:

a) Shoot a ton of images, at least 50, maybe 100, to get one 'perfect'.

b) Your shutterspeed and aperture are fine vs some of my images of a similar moon, but let the camera brighten the image. To get a whiter / brighter moon, you only have to be at ISO-200, no higher than ISO-400, with little risk of Noise. I'd compare the camera's boosted brightness (ISO) vs making the same brightening in your editor.

c) Consider where you focus. The edge of the moon seems in better focus than the details that face to earth. Maybe it's just an illusion, but it seems the large crater in the lower left 'corner' could be sharper as compared to the edge of the moon as we move to the dark sky.

d) You can override the picture control in your editor. I'd make sure you change to Standard and / or that you heavily adjust all the sharpening, contrast, and saturation settings in your editor.
Jay, an example helps. Are you shooting from a tri... (show quote)


I do apologize for the lack of details and thank you for your suggestions. Setup did involve a D500, Nikon AI Nikkor ED 300mm F4.5S (IF), EFCS, timer, and capable tripod/head. I placed the maximum zoomed live view focus point on the circumference of the moon and manually focused - body did confirm focus. I took close to 50 shots at different exposures and this one appeared to be the sharpest.

Put aside the role that atmosphere plays on image sharpness, do my results represent closely the maximum achievable sharpness for this type of photography with my current gear? If all conditions were the same, would a higher resolution APS-C or MFT sensor and/or newer 300mm lens produce much more sharper images? I do realize my questions are subjective...
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Mar 11, 2022 18:52:06   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
You might consider sharing (and storing) a disappointing example to review and suggest technique ideas rather than equipment solutions.


Taken last year, early Tokyo morning. Here is the NEF file and a JPEG without adjustments. I look forward to your comments/feedback.

Attached file:
(Download)


(Download)
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Mar 11, 2022 16:38:08   #
Bultaco wrote:
What lens are you using?


For the moon and distant mountains, I use legacy glass - Nikon Nikkor 300mm f/4.5 ED-IF AI-S (and am contemplating a Nikkor Auto 400mm f/5.6). My shoots often involve a hike so if I were to purchase a modern lens, I wouldn't go heavier than an AF-S NIKKOR 300mm f/4E PF ED VR - of course anything longer/faster would also be out of my budget.
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Mar 10, 2022 17:19:16   #
Leinik wrote:
Sharpness is more a matter of lens than camera. Both your Nikons are perfectly able cameras. If you use a tripod think of turning the stabilisation system of the lens off.


Thank you for your feedback. I do currently use a capable carbon tripod (max section diameter 28mm) and my longest telephoto doesn't have VR. Maybe I should consider improving the conditions.
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Mar 10, 2022 17:16:15   #
Ysarex wrote:
They should be similar. They're same size sensors about the same pixel resolution and both are without AA filters.

The Fuji is an X-trans sensor with Fuji's unique CFA that requires special attention in demosaicing and that could be a big factor if you want to process raw files from both cameras. The software you select will have more of an impact with the Fuji sensor than with the Nikon.


Thank you for your feedback. In your opinion, the higher sensor resolution of the X-T4 is negligible?
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Mar 10, 2022 08:08:15   #
Jay_UH wrote:
For those who have used the same lens on both bodies, do you find that the X-T4 provides sharper (and more detailed) images?


Allow me to rephrase:
For those who have used the same Nikkor telephoto lens on both the FUJIFILM X-T4 and D500, do you find that the X-T4 produces sharper (and more detailed) images?
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Mar 10, 2022 07:27:50   #
mwsilvers wrote:
Are you talking about mounting a Nikkor lens on a Fuji X-trans body using something like a metabones adapter? Your post is a bit confusing.


Yes, Nikkor lens mounted on a FUJIFILM X-T4 via mount adapter.
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Mar 10, 2022 07:26:15   #
billnikon wrote:
X-T4?


FUJIFILM X-T4
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Mar 10, 2022 06:00:13   #
For photographing the moon on a clear night or distant mountains during the day, I often use my D500 rather than my D750 to achieve extra reach. However, I am not quite satisfied with the sharpness of my current setup. I did once consider purchasing a 200-500 - however weight was the deal-breaker.

For those who have used the same lens on both bodies, do you find that the X-T4 provides sharper (and more detailed) images?
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Feb 27, 2022 00:51:09   #
Orphoto wrote:
Hi Jay, here is what I came up with this morning. Moon is about 50% full. Shot on D850 body, 64iso, beefy Gitzo systematic carbon tripod with Markins M-20 head. All are crops at 100% magnification. Standard settings same for all, no additional processing.

First 300 PF f4 lens, 1/160 sec f4,

300 PF f4 lens w/TC-14e converter (1st generation) , 1/80 sec f5.6

500 PF f5.6 lens, 1/80 sec f5.6

500 f4 ai-p lens, 1/160 sec f4


Thank you so very much - these pictures truly illustrate the capabilities of the combinations with a high resolution body. For my application, I have concluded that the teleconverter is not the way to go.
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Feb 23, 2022 00:35:17   #
Orphoto wrote:
Jay, i do have the 300pf but not the 200-500, so i can't compare them to each other. Furthermore back when i still had the 400 i never compared it to the 300 + 1.4. For just landscapes with moons i suspect the zoom's enhanced flexibility alone would score big points. If substantial hiking to views the 300 is really small and light. I would rent or borrow before making a final decision. I will try moon shots with the 300 in the next couple of days to see if the into the light issue comes into play. I know the 500pf plays well with moons.
Jay, i do have the 300pf but not the 200-500, so i... (show quote)


I sincerely appreciate the additional information. Frankly, I am hesitant on the 200-500 due to its size. I do look forward to your moon shot trials with the 300.
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Feb 21, 2022 19:01:29   #
Orphoto wrote:
Jay. I have tried the 400 5.6 ais ed-if, 400 5.6PC converted, 400 3.5 ais, 600 5.6 ai, 500 f5 ai-p all in an attempt to find a high quality manual super tele. Fast answer is non of them were as good as modern. The 500 was the best of the bunch but recently obtained 500 pf which easily outperforms optically, nevermind the autofocus bit.

As to the 400 5.6 pc ai converted. It is fun to play with and can be had for about $2-300 used. Will appear best on modest megapixel bodies. Good color, good flare control. Just never quite as sharp as hoped on d800 & later bodies. Sort of neat to have first use of ED glass, but never officially confirmed. Relatively light & moderately compact made fitting in pack easy.

If you are hoping to use in landscapes with high quality - keep saving. The 200-500 is pretty good by most accounts. Save longer and the 500pf is outrageously good.
Jay. I have tried the 400 5.6 ais ed-if, 400 5.6... (show quote)


Thank you for your feedback. I am going through the process that you had gone through (I.e. attempt to find a high quality manual super tele). My application is strictly lunar photography w/ and w/out foreground and my bodies are D750 and D500. In this case, I prioritize IQ over novelty. Should I be instead looking at the 200-500 @ 400 or 300 PF+TC-14EII?
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