Twardlow wrote:
intelligent people try to use words that mean the same to everyone else; it makes for better communication that way.
That is a debatable opinion and likely incorrect from my perspective, especially when you are referring to political labels. (which seems obvious on this thread alone but likewise on about every political discussion thread I have ever seen.) What is a conservative? You might get a dozen definitions from asking 20 people what a liberal is or what a republican is or what a democrat is.
Twardlow wrote:
That brings us back to this: can you define an distinction between a republic and a democracy--pure or representative--that is accurate and valuable in discussions between rational people?
I admit that for current day discussion this can be a challenge however I do believe there is a "rational" answer to be explained below.
I have for more than 10 years now realized and come to the conclusion that labels are confusing.
Twardlow wrote:
If there is such a distinction, I don't know it, and I can't find it is a responsible dictionary.
Twardlow wrote:
I say the distinction that conservatives like to make between the two doesn't prove out; the two mean the same thing.
Define Conservative (another confusing label), and which conservatives are you talking about?
Twardlow wrote:
If you can clarify with some authority, I'd like to understand it.
I can not speak with authority on the use of a word by people today, only the speaker could clarify what it means when they use such a word. However I can say that I believe words do have meanings, especially when it comes to contracts and documents. Regardless of what definition is applied today....A document and contract should only have the definition and meaning it had when originally written, otherwise what value are words, contracts and documents if we can all choose how they are interpreted for our own benefit?
I do not deny the confusion and changed meanings of words as applied today compared to what they meant during signing of the declaration of independence and the united states constitution. However, the meanings of the words as applied in the document are clear....The word Democracy IS NOT in the constitution and was spoken of with disregard by the founders for the most part. The word Republic was used and IS IN the document.
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/federalist-papers/federalist-10-democracies-have-ever-been-spectacles-of-turbulence-and-contentionIt is correct that there are some aspects of Democracy but only to the extent that individual rights are not violated.
However the word in the Constitution is...... Republic and Republican form of government... (and no that does not mean Republican party)
As far as I am concerned both parties are destroying liberty and the real war is quite clear in my mind. The war is between individual rights and Statism, or two other words that best compile the true issues and confusion of all the other labels....INDIVIDUALISM VS COLLECTIVISM.
liberal vs conservatism, democrat vs republican, these are essentially distraction from the real underlying issues of Individualism (supported by the Original intent of the Constitution (and any changes "pursuant thereof" ) and Collectivism.
Party leadership from both parties have helped lead us from being the greatest creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation in a short period of time. Both have helped deteriorate our liberties and increased centralized government power and collectivism. It can be argued until blue in the face about which party did it more and with which issues but either way elected politicians from both parties have ignored the intent of the document the swore an oath to uphold and defend.
Therefor a valuable discussion is one which correctly understand INDIVIDUALISM and individual rights and recognizes the people as sovereigns and discussion of the Proper Role of government ( which are the principles in which the founding father largely rediscovered. )
The constitution I believe did a wonderful job defining proper role of government. The problems we have now are not because of the constitution, but because the principles and intent of it are not understood, practiced or believed.