The Robber Barron days myth was dispelled back in the 50's
There is no text books even under liberal that refers to the Movers of society as the Robber Barrons anymore.
Only in context of that was what they were called by the politicians at the time to gain more power.

Rockefeller refined gas so Henry ford could build cars that used gas.
Ford made cars so cheap that the common man could buy them.
Rockefeller hurt Rail because of his method of t***sporting oil was much much cheaper.
Rockefeller owned 90% of oil pipelines because he had revenue from the original oil pipelines that he took the risk to build with money he had accumulated from discovering oil.
He forced people out because he could deliver oil cheaper. He did not use the coercive power of the state to do so.
He like Carnegie purchased companies and made the owner wealthy.
You apparently have a skewed view of force.
No one was forced to work in a steal mill. It was voluntary hard work....
No one was forced to work for Rockefeller, It was better pay than working in a steal mill.
Henry ford created mass production and created the assembly line with a 40 hour work week for those that didn't want to work 50 hours.
Typically what happened historically is that a problem would occur in capitalism. The government would intervene long after the problem was resolved.
Short haul long haul rail comes to mind with antitrust.
Capitalism is not perfect. There is no other system that is better for providing the greatest good for it's people.

I have no problem with you paying your taxes.
Apparently you have no problem telling other people what is good for them either.(By v**e)
Life was pretty civilized in 1776 after we kicked George's butt and banned everything but excise taxes.
Tell me how Meals on Wheels, Planned Parenthood benefit me?
Now tell me what price I must pay to get that benefit?
Are you saying that voluntary organizations would not exist to do such things.
They already do. You can go to most any city in the nation and go to the Salvation Army and get a meal.
Maybe your neighbor would help you or your church...They certainly would have more to give if they paid less in taxes. You would not have the overhead of giant government machine.
No question that there is no utopia.
Here's a little reminder of the cost of giving people what you think is good for them.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Your premise is flawed.
Most of these things would have existed without socialism.
Cell phones exist because of government?
The Internet would not have existed without socialism?
Your computer would not have existed without socialism?
A power grid was created by Tesla and JP Morgan without socialism..... Spontaneous based on need and demand.
Steal was created without socialism.....Spontaneous based on need and demand
A bridge across the Mississippi River was spanned without socialism....Spontaneous based on need and demand
The automobile was create with out socialism....Spontaneous based on need and demand
The pipeline infrastructure was built without socialism. Rockefeller....Spontaneous based on need and demand
No question that a government needs to exist. One would arise if it did not exist.
You can have a society that has little or no federal income tax to support large federal institutions.
An excise tax is minimally invasive to prevent taking by force of law(stealing) from the working man.
Roads could be built and maintained with a fuel tax(excise). Theoretically they are.
Public education could all be private. I would argue that it would be more diverse and specialized to individual choices.
A public education does not equate to an education.
Michael Dell did not complete college.
The real argument is not about socialism (Yes or No)
The idea of the founding fathers was what system would best support individual liberty.
Socialism runs completely counter to individual liberty.
Look at how many time the founders spoke of Liberty in their writings.
I have never heard a socialist talk of individual liberty.
Socialism has many flavors and degrees.
True capitalism is an unknown ideal.
The closest any state has ever come to True capitalism was in 1780 or so in the U.S.
Individual liberty has slowly eroded from that point forward.
"A government does not become a tyranny through sudden usurpations but by gradual encroachment"
James Madison (Paraphrased)
What has been happening from the founding is Tyranny by v**e, Tryanny by the majority, Tyranny by Democracy itself."
This concept in the above statement is why the founders created a Democratic Republic
The overriding idea of the founders was what system of government would best preserve INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY.
The End Game was Individual liberty not Democracy....

Pretty much sums it up.
There is a whole lot of crying going on.
Screamin too!
Let the Screamin and crying and whining continue.

[quote=Frosty]

That's interesting.
I don't think the world is laughing at Trump or the American people for electing Trump.
I believe in your world people see trump as exactly as you said.
I would say at least 50 percent of the people in the attic are not in your world.
Likely the same percentage of people in the nation are not in your world.
Likely the same percentage of people in the world are not in your world.
Right now your world view is loosing in the U.S. That's what counts....Just like the e*******l college is what counts.
Tomorrow is a new day.
Time will tell how many people switch worlds.

That was my thought.....lets not talk about the rest of the story......
My side only please.....
The liberals can all blame themselves and FEEL guilt for the world.
I wasn't involved......

Looks like illegal border crossing are down too.
I usually don't trust statistics but they do give some hard number.
It would make sense.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/09/illegal-border-crossings-decrease-by-40-percent-in-trumps-first-month-report-says.html

I think the point of the post was that Carson referred to s***es as immigrants and he is black.
Obama referred to s***es as immigrants and he is black.
The New York times made a big deal of it and it was also picked up by the MSM when Carson said it.
When Obama said basically the same thing nobody said anything......
That is hypocrisy....Do you understand now?
See link at top of page...New York Times, more biased/F**e news, I guess.

Tell me the assumptions I made in any of my statements.
I typically think in terms of odds.
I guess in some peoples world, everything is an assumption or hypothetical.
My original point about hypotheticals was about Green creating a loaded question that was a hypothetical.
I believe his premise was flawed.
I'm glad you got the hypothetical point.

I agree

Yes it is.
I keep all my scientist friends in stitches.......
They all agree. I guess they are wingnuts too.
97% of them never could figure out how they were included in the 97%.

If I was a betting man, I bet China starts doing a little arm twisting to North Korea.

What's even worse is when a guy starts using statistics and he can't even think.
I'll use the guy that's thinking every time.
I guess I'm a wingnut. Better than a Libtard that takes the statistics as gospel without knowing how the numbers are arrived at.
97 percent of scientist agree with me on this.....

[quote=Frosty aka Green][quote=PalePictures]Both of these assumptions are conjecture.....

......Your questions shows you are a prisoner of hypotheticals and draw a conclusion based on bias(one side versus the other).

********

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! !

[quote]
To: Frosty aka Green.
You read into what I said.
I said his QUESTIONS. Not that you couldn't make hypotheticals.
His questions were about what Trump did/Obama did.
Asking a question where there is no out, is leading.
I made statements.
I fully understand where the CIA/NSA/FBI get their power.
They have power that is likely being misused for some ones agenda.
I would ask the president to do his part in draining the swamp.
Speak to congress.
Create executive orders.
I don't care.

My Hypotheticals just became real....sort of.
Since you and half the world are concerned about the worlds view of TRUMP.
I find it ironic that every government in the world now distrust us because of possible espionage against them and others.
All shown by Wiki Leaks.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/09/wikileaks-cia-disclosure-fallout-is-worldwide-as-agency-does-damage-control.html
This has nothing to do with what TRUMP did.
I think my point was valid and your point is?
I was right on everything except the hypothetical statement?
How's your boyfriend doing would be a leading question about you. Is he doing well or not doing well.
You would probably respond. I have no boyfriend..........
The question would be based on a faulty premise on my part.
If I said
What if you had a boyfriend and you did B. That would be better.
Get it? See the difference?
Notice that I said "Lets say" in my supposition.

Now go and read again what you AKA Green wrote.
His premise in what he said was flawed.

"The pot calling the Kettle Black" seems to be a way of life in the Attic
Go cozy up with KKKEENAN.
He seems to smoke enough pot to not see the kettle.
I digress.......

and this is what happens when you do this kinda crap.
The world was never laughing at Trump.
The world is now infuriated over an out of control U.S. government.
That has been out of control for years....
Drain the swamp Trump!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/09/wikileaks-cia-disclosure-fallout-is-worldwide-as-agency-does-damage-control.html