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Posts for: LiamRowan
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Mar 31, 2020 22:28:35   #
aellman wrote:
If you look closely in the bushes, you'll see the horizontal line that divides the land from the refection in places where it doesn't belong.


Yes, but the woods and their reflection in the water are real. Only the deer and its reflection were composited.
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Mar 31, 2020 21:46:29   #
Guyserman wrote:
I say real. (I'm on page one and don't know if you have revealed the answer yet. But I think I have a good indication which I can explain if desired.)


Answer is above on p4. The woods and reflection in the water are real. The deer and its reflection are composited. Thanks!
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Mar 31, 2020 20:36:06   #
Annie-Get-Your-Gun wrote:
Liam, I'm thinking if it was real, you would not be asking us to take the test. It's a beautiful landscape whether fake or real. My vote, however, is FAKE.



Excellent logic, Annie. The answer is on p4 above your post. The trick to the question was that the deer was composited but the woods and its reflection in the water were real. Quite a few thought both woods and water were done in post, but that is not the case. Thanks!
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Mar 31, 2020 20:22:55   #
photogeneralist wrote:
I'll go with fake. The reflection should be at least a full stop darker than the real scene


See answer above your post. The water reflection is as it was seen!
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Mar 31, 2020 20:22:26   #
aellman post:

"Added in post. If you want to know how I reached that conclusion, send me a PM."

See answer above your post.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:21:55   #
Blenheim Orange wrote:
That was a lot of fun. Thanks for that.

By the way, the discussion about color is interesting and got me to thinking and doing a little research.

I live and work in the northernmost fruit district in Michigan and have long noticed that the various fruit varieties have more color the farther north they are grown. I suspected that the longer summer photo-periods were responsible for higher levels of anthocyanin and flavanoids and other compounds associated with high coloration - reds, yellows, oranges - as compared to chlorophyll which is associated with green coloration. The same phenomenon appears to occur with leaves as well as fruit, as you suggested in your response to our friends here from the South.

I came upon this today that supports the idea:

Nature's Swiss Army Knife: The Diverse Protective Roles of Anthocyanins in Leaves
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082902/

"When leaves receive more light energy than can be used in photochemistry, they show a characteristic decline in the quantum efficiency of photosynthesis, termed photoinhibition. Under severe conditions the chloroplasts generate reactive oxygen species, which have the potential to destroy thylakoid membranes, damage DNA, and denature proteins associated with photosynthetic electron transport. Anthocyanins have been shown in many plant species to reduce both the frequency and severity of photoinhibition, as well as to expedite photosynthetic recovery. In red-osier dogwood (Cornus stolonifera), for example, a 30-minute exposure to strong white light reduced the quantum efficiency of photosynthesis by 60% in red leaves, but by almost 100% in acyanic leaves. When the plants were returned to darkness, the red leaves recovered to their maximum potential after only 80 minutes, yet their acyanic counterparts had not achieved the pretreatment state even after six hours.

"Anthocyanins protect leaves from the stress of photoinhibitory light fluxes by absorbing the excess photons that would otherwise be intercepted by chlorophyll b. Although red leaves absorb more green light in total, their photosynthetic tissues actually receive fewer quanta than do those of acyanic leaves because the energy absorbed by the cell vacuole cannot be transferred to the chloroplasts. As a result, under light-limiting environments the photosynthetic efficiencies of red leaves are often slightly lower than those for acyanic leaves. Under strong light, however, the anthocyanins serve as a useful optical filter, diverting excess high-energy quanta away from an already saturated photosynthetic electron transport chain. Chloroplasts irradiated with light that has first passed through a red filter have been shown to generate fewer superoxide radicals, thereby reducing the propensity for structural damage to the photosystems."

I can see what seems to be Red-osier dogwood - Cornus stolonifera - in your photo, by the way, the plant that is mentioned in that excerpt from the research paper.

So, going farther north means longer days in the summer. That is certainly true. Longer days mean more light. Hard to argue with that. According to the research, more light means more anthocyanins in the leaves. More anthocyanins in the leaves means brighter red colors in the fall.

That is your reds. As for the yellows, later in the paper we find this allusion to other research on the role of flavanoids in the protection of foliage:

"Interest in the flavonoid family has increased in recent years following the observation that these compounds act as sunscreens against potentially damaging UV-B radiation. Foliar anthocyanins have generally been included with other flavonoids in this UV-B protective role."

So, going farther north means longer days in the summer. That is certainly true. Longer days mean more light. That means more UV. Hard to argue with that. According to the research, more UV means more flavanoids in the leaves. More flavanoids in the leaves means brighter yellow colors in the fall.

Mike
That was a lot of fun. Thanks for that. br br By ... (show quote)


Thanks for this. The fall colors are fascinating, but also puzzling because they can be so different from year to year, even in the same tree. Last summer I took photos of brilliant fall color in red maples that was visible in late JULY. Been in MI 30 years and never seen color that early. I am convinced water (rain) is a also a factor. Nice to have science posted on this topic!
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Mar 31, 2020 18:22:56   #
LiamRowan wrote:
As noted at the start of the thread--posting the answer tomorrow evening 3/31.


ANSWER:

The original image is posted here. So the deer was composited in.

First, thanks so much for sharing your insights. I knew I would learn from your observations. Additional thoughts . . .

I suspected the reflections of the woods in the water would fool quite a few (it did). They were just so strong and clear, and the waterline so straight that it would seem like a "mirrored" image in PS.

Several people thought the grass was composited in. It was not—only the deer. I thought the grass might actually help fool people because the reflection of the grass in the water was very sharp, and so at least some of the deer should have been, too. Actually, most of the growth right at the water’s edge is very sharp in the reflection. I thought that might throw some off as to assessing whether the deer was actually there. So if you thought the grass was the giveaway, you got the right answer for the wrong reason!

Those who thought the color was fake or indicated the scene was not real are completely off. I took the developed image back to the scene the next morning and checked the color. Treat yourself to a Michigan fall—it can be astounding. This color was laid back compared to woods in the near vicinity.

Lastly, the SHERLOCK HOLMES AWARD goes to midpix, who correctly pointed out that mature fall is too late for a buck to still be in velvet. They lose it in late Aug to early Sep here. I didn’t think of that, so now I’m looking for another image to composite into this one

If I find a suitable shot, I’ll try to blur the deer reflection a bit—too sharp a reflection caused several of you to go with real.

Thanks again!!


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Mar 31, 2020 10:01:48   #
DAN Phillips wrote:
Absolutely Unrealistic!. FAKE!, FALSE COLORING! TOO BAD!


I see you're from GA. You should treat yourself to a Michigan visit some fall. You would see what the post below yours notes:

"I'd say this photo is typical of peak season in MI."

The only thing not typical about it is there are no fiery reds and and oranges from various species of maples. They make these colors look pale by comparison.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:29:58   #
As noted at the start of the thread--posting the answer tomorrow evening 3/31.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:16:40   #
bbrowner wrote:
Regardless of real or fake... it's an awful picture. Outlandish colors. Just unpleasant to view. Sorry. But when you, post... you gotta take the bad with the good. No sugar coating.


HAHA! A bit off topic. I am curious where you live? This is Michigan, and these colors were subdued compared to the sugar maples 200 yds away the same morning. And they are very much exactly as you would have seen them in person. Whenever I leave Michigan I'm always struck by how much less colorful most other places are.
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Mar 30, 2020 15:19:05   #
Are the reflections in this image real or done in post?

I'll post the answer 3/31 (Tues) in the evening.

Thanks for your insight!


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Mar 9, 2020 19:13:01   #
zumarose wrote:
Indeed. I was there today at roughly the time of the wedding ceremony. I intend to go back a couple of times more up to a week beforehand to check out the weather and other variables. Thank you


Click "Quote Reply" when responding or no one will know which post you're responding to.

Great advice to visit the location a couple times, preferably at the same time of day as the wedding, and with different skies. Getting a ballpark idea of camera settings, light, framing, etc. will be invaluable. Everything happens so fast at a wedding -- the more stuff you need to figure out that has been done beforehand the better.
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Mar 8, 2020 23:34:33   #
Ednsb wrote:
Aw but not taking into consideration of why I want a macro - digitizing snapshot prints and maybe some flower shots. Have no interest in bugs. And retired on fixed income with daughter in grad school. So 8.9 at half price sounds good. And the sigma gets me both.


Haven't used the Sigma but have heard good things. Best of luck!!
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Mar 8, 2020 22:44:44   #
Ednsb wrote:
That’s why I’m going to take a look at the sigma at 40% of the cost of the Canon L. When I’m shooting macro most of the time I will be using a flash and probably a monopod or tripod.


The problem with this is that you are limiting what you can do. For ex., it is a lot of fun to sit in front of flowers and photograph what's landing on them. But what's landing on them is not standing still, so your tripod and lack of IS are going to make that a frustrating experience since you have to be able to move the subject. If you have IS you can always not use it, but if you don't have it and find you need it for many types of macro, as you likely will, then you're out of luck. For the relatively small amount of additional $$, it is worth it. FYI, on the aforementioned list of best Canon lenses, the IS version of the 100mm f2.8 macro comes in at the highest user satisfaction rating with a score of 9.7. The non-IS version comes in at 8.9. That's a very big difference in user satisfaction. The lenses are equally sharp, so what is that telling you? These ratings are comprised of many thousands of lens owners, so not a small sample.
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Mar 8, 2020 22:35:08   #
BebuLamar wrote:
But still I wouldn't use anything wider than 35mm on a FF camera because if you use something like a 24mm the people at the edge may be pissed off.


That is a good point. When I shoot a group with 35mm or wider, I use more mm than is necessary in order to leave room on either side of the frame, and then crop. This helps to minimize the edge distortion that leave people annoyed since people are farther from the edge.
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