Thomas902. What would you suggest for changes in the 'ensembles'...to bring this to the next level?
I love this pic, and have a young lady that would like a similar one taken. But I definitely don't have the eye you do :) At first I didn't know she was on a horse, and was thinking of suggesting a crop to rid the hot spot on the blue jeans. But the face, the pose, the colors....even the fancy blue jeans and belt buckle ... Seem to go together just wonderfully. And the fill flash is done nicely also. (thanks for mentioning flash and horses...I might need that tip also).

For the most part I agree. We all have to find what works for us. But I'm fairly new to taking this photography stuff seriously, So it really helps hearing what works for others. I will tweak what I like to fit me and discard the rest. But what a great place to learn from people like you, who have been doing this stuff for years, tweaking as you go. So keep talking! Some of us are really listening :)

Thanks again Ed, Very well explained. And your equipment looks well used & time tested :)
I really like the Aperture settings on back of your flash(Q-Flash?), that could be very useful in a rush.

Thanks again ED, I really appreciate you explaining in such detail. I'm having a hard time changing my thinking, and how I set up the lights, But I can see how the image quality will improve, and it's a look most photographers (in this area) do not have. I'm going to do some tests so I know the output of my fill, at preset distances, then I can guesstimate my 1-2 stop drop,esp when things get moving.
That is an excellent idea with covering most the flash with your fingers! I'm going to steal that idea off you :)

Another great idea is the multimeter and outlet tester. I've done a lot of electrical troubleshooting (mainly 120vac & 12vdc). And should kick myself for not having the common sense to carry these tools. I have found most people assume the worst when something goes wrong...like a bad strobe or bulb, but if you start at the source.(outlet for example)-many times it's as simple as a breaker or switch.

You have completely sold me on the Lumadyne Q-Flash gear. But it will be awhile before I can afford that. (Otherwise I owe you a computer!).
Thats going on my wish list. Thanks for explaining.
I know nothing about flash troubleshooting, but For now, I may be using the strobes more often, esp for groups. since they have so much more power.
Thanks again!

Now I'm off to research Q-Flash & Lumadyne equipment, BTW, I like your meter collection. I am using the Sekonic 758. I never thought of carrying my multimeter along. Thanks for the tip :)

Thanks for the GREAT info guys!
I'm glad to hear that you both use your meters frequently during a shoot. I've been thinking the main way to speedup my shots, was to get away from the meter. I have just finished 'çhaining' my flashes and strobes (ropes with knots where f/8 - f/4 etc).... My biggest struggle has been with Groups and dance floor. ESP outdoor groups, where I try to include ambient BG (Like the beach). Now that I have made these ropes calibrated to each flash...it's no wonder. I just don't have enough light.
I do like that I can throw one of these on the ground, and as long as my people (be it 2 - or 3 rows) fit between a couple knots, I know my light will not lose more than a stop from front to rear.
Another Question if I might....
Fill flash exposure. I have been using 1 off camera flash for a long time.It is either my main-or fill. So - When I use fill flash, I generally set my main exposure to the ambient I want (indoors or out)...then meter my off camera flash at a predetermined distance, & adjust until I get 20-30% fill contribution (according to the meter). Now as long as my voice activated light stand maintains that distance from every subject I shoot, (And the light doesn't change)...It doesn't matter where I stand, or what lens I use...exposure is constant.(BTW-I am no good at eyeballing exposures).
So to adapt your style, using on camera fill...
I get the main lights being preset on the floor, ... & I can meter my fill @ 12' away with a 200mm lens & I'm ready to go.
...But at 6-8' for the toast @ maybe at 70mm - I'd have to run up and re-meter and adjust fill. & it certainly doesn't sound like you would be running up there beside me . :)
On your 'photo-metrics', when you pre-set your fill exposure based on 12 feet, then have to change it to 8'. What is your reference (if you are not using meter)?
I was thinking you (and the guys), were using some 'rule of thumb or chart'. Maybe you just know, the 'fill' set at 6' has to increase 2 stops at 11' ?
Hope this makes sense.

Thats looks great, I don't think of a bare flash as having 'soft' qualities. Something else I have to try.
Generally I have my 580exII mounted on 622C on my Voice activated light stand, so I can change power levels from my camera. Indoors it is my Main, outdoors my fill. I'm just changing over to ón camera fill'. Thanks for explaining that.

Completely understand! I've not done nearly as many weddings as you, but I have had 2 similar thus far. Both I was doing cheap to 'Help the families' - both bit me in the butt. Just takes all the fun out.
But I hope you follow thru with this idea, I think you are onto something...a unique look.

Ed,Thank you very much!
I'm gonna need a couple weeks to get this down.
This is GREAT, because I am searching for any and all "STANDARDIZATION as to lighting methods"....My technique has me fumbling with meter readings and ratios all the time, killing me in the 'Posing & Expression' dept.(I should just stick to Ring shots).
I finally have two strobes- (Paul Buff einstein 640ws) & a battery pack. That I'll be integerating into my event shooting. I'm glad you pointed out the modeling light for formals.
A couple questions if you don't mind....
1) What size soft box do you recommend for your Formals & Groups? & what diffuser do you use for on camera?
2) When you base your exposure on the off camera light and the on-camera light is the fill source(whether it be your room set up, or your man with the light)... How do you judge your distance (so your fill exposure doesn't change)? especially with moving people?
I'm thinking, if I keep my lens at a predetermined length ( say 70mm or 135mm ) and compose my shot for a full length... my distance from every subject should remain pretty constant. Or I could just eyeball, say 8'...& that should give me about 3' of leeway before I lose a stop?

Thanks again, You're getting pretty good on that phone! I feel like I owe you a new computer (wish I had the money), this advise is way above any book I've read!

Not sure if it would help, but I wonder if the flash was higher...maybe midway up?
or (to save that floor spot, that looks kinda neat).even a second flash added midway up?
The BG looks like it might be fairly easy to photoshop once you get the rim you are looking for.(But everytime I think that-it seems photoshop bites me).

Very nice, can I ask if you used a modifier on your on camera fill?
It seems the fill brought up the right side of her face, dress and flowers. I really like the desaturated look too.

Thanks guys, I do drag the shutter, but don't usually use higher ISO's, so glad you mentioned that Bob. I'm going to play with that.
My diffused speedlight will put out f/4 at 1/2 power, and 5.6 at full. So I got a bracket to use 2 speedlights, but that only gained me one stop. & I really don't want to consider 4 speedlights for one more stop.
jaysnave, when I'm wandering with no help, I always use a light scoop...& you just gave me something to think about too...
When I use my scoop, set my lens around 70mm, I only use it for headshots of 1 or 2 people, so it's easy to maintain a consistant distance every time I compose a shot...then set my flash exposure at least 2 below an average Metering of the room...
So I probly need to do some testing to come up with a formula...for using fill with main off camera.
example - when a group of 4 or more is composed in camera - 70mm lens, I need to figure out that average distance...(instead of using a tape measure) Then when I get my ratio's set, just composing the same at 70mm will get me in the sweet spot quickly.
Then maybe another for full length couple - headshot only etc?

BTW - on testing with the light bracket,( I did as Bob suggested), used my Yongnuo flash with built in radio,& trigger on camera to control main & fill flashes. Worked really good . :)
Thanks again!

Ok, Ed got me really wanting to learn this technique, using on camera flash as fill. I can see how this would really be useful to controlshadows & with multiple lights on a dance floor (or reception area). But I'd like to use it also, for formals - portraits - and table shots, with one voice activated light stand.

I have been using an off camera speedlight in either an 30" umbrella (outdoours) or softbox (indoors). I usually meter F/4@6', so I tell my assistant to hold the light at 6'from the subject, & that pretty much leaves me free to wander around & shoot at will. Whether it be one person or a group -from testing--I can go about 3' from either side of the light (6' total), or 3' in depth before I lose a stop. Attached is a couple examples....

I got the spider webs off and mounted my flash bracket..(to keep the light above lens-prevent red eye).The speedlight is pretty harsh when up close (2 1/2' away with a 50mm lens), even 2 stops below main it's leaving unsightly shadows. So I mounted a 12" diffuser which helped alot.
But I quickly realized, I'm not as free to roam.
It seems to me, that the trick is to try to keep a consistent distance -from the subject. Just as the main.(I shoot manual - no TTL)...

I was wondering if any of you have a 'rule of thumb' that you follow? Like, you 'always stay 8' away, and keep the fill 1 1/2stops below main. Unless it's a group greater than 4, Or a head shot of two'? or 'Remove the diffuser after 135mm and stay 12' away'?

Also, do you use a speedlight on camera, with a diffuser?
Thanks.

Fill flash would have improved both

bkyser, until now, I never really considered "..Showing people large prints, and beautiful albums ..", I had the price lists and the sizes, and could kick myself for not coming up with this on my own! Being able to see.. touch.. would really bring it to life. And custom framing might be a great addition too! I think it would move it from an 'upsale' to - "look at this"-"hold this".. if you want it - you can buy it. Thanks for the suggestions!
Tim, I have to agree with you. The first time he and Ed replied to one of my questions, I went thru and looked up comments they had posted for others ... The integrity of both these guys really does stand out.So I added them to my buddy list, so now I'm stalking them too . :)
Thanks again guys!
Signed: Stalker Two

I like your attitude and tactics. And I'm really glad to hear your business has been successful, by actually having a good reputation!
I'm a sucker for a sob story, and will give you the shirt off my back. But if I think you are deceitful and dishonest, I won't give you the time of day.
I just figured I'll never be rich, because I refuse to take advantage of people. And those that do...Will get theirs in the end. :)