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Sep 16, 2022 18:41:41   #
jcboy3 wrote:
So you could call this image a focus stack, rather than a composite. Since the birds were there and you took multiple images to get each bird in focus.


Yes. Traditional focus stacking usually does not work for me (I almost exclusively photograph birds or frogs) as typically the bird moves, even if slightly, during the sequence. I typically use the clone stamp and Alan Murphy's technique.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:38:23   #
lamiaceae wrote:
I am OK with compositing or cloning and other PP processing as long as all the images or components where shot by you.

I am curious how you precisely did you composite or combination of the two images. What tools did you use? Did you use a Clone Stamp? Content Aware Tool (Which)? Layer Blending? Image Stack? Whatever?! it will make the most sense to me if you used Adobe Photoshop. I have exceedingly rarely tried a substitution combination like yours. I mainly use a Clone Stsmp to cover things I don't want.
I am OK with compositing or cloning and other PP p... (show quote)


I have used several techniques in the past, but in this one when I originally took the shots in the field, I knew I was going to need to "move one bird from one photo to the next"; hence the reason for shifting the focus point. I simply used the clone tool in Photoshop to move the bird to the next photo. I use the technique of Alan Murphy; clone the object to be moved with a large enough brush to encompass it entirely. Then I position the object into the next image, remove my finger from the mouse, and use the bracket key to make the clone stamp brush small. I then paint slowly to get as precise and as small an object as is needed to make it look good.
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Sep 16, 2022 09:07:06   #
This picture was taken in Cabin Lake, Oregon. The environment is the transition between conifer forest and high desert, typical of much of eastern central Oregon.

A number of different species of woodpeckers thrive here, but this appears to the be dominant one.

The picture was taken at a small pool of water that is present year round; the only one in several square miles. A stream of woodpeckers visit this every morning providing many opportunities for images.
This was shot with a Canon R5, a 100-500 mm zoom lens (at 500mm) from distance of approximately 20' from a blind. A grey overcast morning shortly after sunrise, SS 1/500, ISO 2500, f/7.1. In Photoshop, BG selectively darkened, cropped to square.


(Download)
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Sep 16, 2022 07:25:00   #
rlv567 wrote:
How can you say that “converting images from color to monochrome, selective color, black & white” is in any way “just to show a good/best representation of the SOOC file”??? Doing that is manipulation! – not SOOC at all. And “removing scars, creating background ….., using liquefy to make eyes bigger, smaller tummy etc. ….. Removal of pimples, strings, power lines ….. Removing elements via cloning other parts of the image” also are nothing but manipulation – not that which really was there at the moment the picture was taken.

“using lens correction, stretching, perspective & horizon adjustments” are true editing – meant to correct the representation of the subject as it actually existed (from the flaws produced by the equipment and/or the photographer).

In addition, “adding decorative elements such as borders, text/signature and the like” certainly have absolutely nothing to do with “processing”, “editing” or “manipulating” of a picture!

Creativity and artistic expression are in a completely different realm from the foregoing and may have their own norms and expectations!!!

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City
How can you say that “converting images from color... (show quote)


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Sep 15, 2022 12:46:49   #
User ID wrote:
T. Evidentiary images are obviously another matter.


We would hope so.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:46:11   #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Ethics??? I consider myself an ethical guy. I do not wake up every morning and decide to fool anyone in my photographic work- commercial or otherwise. I will never misrepresent a retouched or manipulated image as a totally authentic capture. To do so would be childish, useless, and insulting people's intelligence.

In many kinds of commercial photography, we are required to idealize various subjects- people, places, things and situations. We are asked to create moods and environments. With the skilled application of lighting, makeup, camera angle, and post-processg manipulations. retouching and other techniques we produce images of all of the aforementioned subjects that, frankly, never look that way in real life- faultless skin tones and textures, a plate of pasta with every noodle in place, and everything seen in its best light and eye-catching composition. We are asked to idealize everything just about every day. Our clients, art directors and, ad agencies all demand these interpretations of whatever they are advertising, promoting, or bringing to the public eye. "Aesthetics and cosmetics" are buzz word we hear every day. I won't say we engage in fakery but we certainly glamorize stuff as much as we can do- legally!

Art is another story. You are the artist and have a vision that you want to express. You may not find the interpretation in a scene, wildlife situation, portrat of a person or whatever you are shooting. So, in order to create your vision, imagination, and interpretation you set out to add and subtract, elements for your basic image. There are numerous techniques in your toolbox- y'all know what they are and you may use one or two of them or pull out all the stops! You create your image and show it to whoever, the word, the forum, you enter it in a competition. Unless there are contest rules or specified restrictions, you have no real obligation to accompany your image with a disclaimer. You put it out here and if you have done a good job or created a botched-up mess, you have to live with the accolades or the criticism respectively. On a photographic forum- nobody is foolin' anybody! If things don't jibe, someone will find it out and probably call it out! My advice is not to create false ethics or rules where the real ones don't exist- it will mess up your creativity and your encouragement to experiment and venture into new things. Just like literature, your image can be fact or fiction.

Of course in legitimate photojournalism, there's no place for composite applications that will alter the story. I preface the term "photojournalism" with the word "legitimate" because there are lots of media out there that are propaganda and sensationalism and not the real stuff.

I think there is too much time wasted on speculating or worrying about what others will think about the art photographers produce. Just put it out there and let it "speak" for itself.

So, if your landscape foreground does not match the light direction and colour of your replaced sky, that is a boo-boo! Etc. etc. etc!
Ethics??? I consider myself an ethical guy. I do... (show quote)


I do appreciate your thoughts. Obviously you speak from knowledge and experience. Yes, this shot was planned from the time I pushed the shutter. I knew both birds would never be in focus; hence the series of shots with the focus point moved from bird to bird.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:43:36   #
rlv567 wrote:
As far as I am concerned, you did nothing wrong - did NOT "PhotoShop" your picture. Improving focus, sharpness, depth of field, making panoramas, etc, did not change the total reality of that which was there. It just made it easier to see it well. On the other hand, putting a hat on one of the birds, adding a rainbow to the sky, and changes of that nature are "PhotoShopping", as would be having one of the birds positioned as a hood ornament on your car. The same goes for changing eye color, slimming body or face, adding objects not in view when the picture was taken, and the like. Depending upon where the picture is to be exhibited, the changes then may need to be announced - or not. It might be noted - actresses and models routinely are "PhotoShopped" with makeup BEFORE the photo shoot even begins; they are TOTALLY unrecognizable from any "before" picture - even those who really do not need the makeover! Of course, that is well known, but never announced.

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City
As far as I am concerned, you did nothing wrong - ... (show quote)


Yes, I agree with you. Even I have limits! I planned this shot at the time I took it. That is why I moved the focus point between birds.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:42:22   #
sippyjug104 wrote:
Photography has been referred to as "Painting with Light" which implies that photography is an art, not a science.

It's for the same reasons why women chose to wear makeup.


Oh my, you are brave for that statement.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:41:12   #
AzPicLady wrote:
I'm really squeamish about composites. When I see a great photo with wonderful background, two birds in perfect focus, and great overall clarity, I think that the person behind that camera is a really good photographer who is in complete command of his camera. Then, I learn that it's actually a composite. My opinion of that creator changes. He's no longer a great photog, but a good computer person. Since I strive to be a good photographer, I hold a higher regard for someone who is a good photographer than someone who is a good computer person. I don't mean that to be offensive, so please forgive if you're offended by that remark. The resulting image can be wonderful, but to me it's not a photograph but photo-based digital artwork. I think there's a difference.
I'm really squeamish about composites. When I see... (show quote)


Not offended at all. Wanted honest opinions. In this situation there is no way both birds could have been in focus at the same time. I was so close (in a pop up blind) that I could have been at f/22 and still would have not had enough DOF to get both birds. I guess I could have shot at 100 mm (I was close to 500) because I was using a zoom, and then cropped heavily, but then would have had background problems (ugly bare mesquite bushes). So... left with only one choice if I wanted two in focus birds.

Let's say that is what I did-shot at 100 mm and f/16 to get enough DOF to make both birds in focus. But then in Photoshop, I created another layer and blurred the background heavily to make it buttery. Would that have been OK for you?
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Sep 15, 2022 12:36:11   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Below shows the 'invention' of a missing wing-tip, actually just a reuse of the other side's wing-tip reversed and merged into the missing portion of the image. This is everyday 'photoshopping'.


Yes, you have not changed the situation or the bird. Sometimes I have clipped wings/tails, etc. At times it was my own ineptitude (could not keep the bird in the frame) and other times I just had too much lens for the bird.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:34:34   #
However, I'm also fairly good at retouching. So, I have photos of me cozying up to Stormy Daniels.


--Bob[/quote]

Oh Bob, I might keep that one to myself.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:32:46   #
richardsaccount wrote:
As far as such effects as changing a sky, I knew photographers who had negatives of different types
of clouds. Years ago I took a class from a professional business/industrial photographer. He saw some
clouds in a print from a scenic taken in the states. But refering to his time in the service in the pacific islands,
this photo had clouds printed in from that part of the world. When he asked the photographer if that was the
case he confirmed his hunch. Personally, if a manipulated scene does not change the content I can see no harm
being done.
As far as such effects as changing a sky, I knew p... (show quote)


Yes, certainly depends on the motive of the photographer, not only at the time of processing/manipulation, but also at the time of posting/publishing.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:31:27   #
Rongnongno wrote:
In front of a screen, looking at an odd question that should be asked w/o picture as it will be transferred to another forum...


Huh?
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Sep 15, 2022 12:30:48   #
stu352 wrote:
I wanted a picture that sort of summed up a convention I attended (Car club. mid coast Maine), but in the hundreds of photos I shot, nothing really stood out. But I did have a photo of a car on a scenic hilltop with an uninspiring background, and a photo of the scenic harbor taken from a couple hundred feet away. Hmmm... both were taken minutes apart, facing southeast, looking down at about the same angle... So I did a background replacement and submitted the photo to a national car hobby magazine with my article, telling their editors what I'd done. It got published. Even the National Geographic publishes assembled pictures, so why not?
I wanted a picture that sort of summed up a conven... (show quote)


Interesting story. I will remember that.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:29:58   #
alberio wrote:
My biggest problem with composition is that I don't know how to do them. I guess it's time to learn.


Very easy. Lots of different ways to do it. I use Alan Murphy's method using the clone tool. Steve Perry of Backcountry Gallery uses a true PS blending mode with masking. Both of these people have YouTube videos of their method.
Took me 15 seconds to do it.
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