srt101fan wrote:
If I understand you right, you are looking for evidence that mask use is beneficial based on a comparison of outcome in different countries/areas. This evidence is too difficult to get. There are too many ifs, buts and howevers, too many variables. And remember Mark Twain’s (or was it Disraeli’s?) words: “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics”.
I’m not a medical professional. I do have some background in respiratory protection. I’ve had lots of interaction with scientists and researchers in various fields so I have an understanding of scientific testing and the importance of putting tests and resulting data in proper context. And I have very strong opinions on the value of wearing a mask. Here is my take:
I suggest you put aside the search for the evidence you seek. Better to concentrate on mask performance as it relates to the individual. I recognize that here too it’s not all black and white. Many variables – among them design/production of the mask, mask fit, donning/doffing, decontamination, and one of the most important - characterization of the coronavirus-contaminated environments the mask might encounter. That last one is one of the more difficult and unsettled issues.
A research paper I saw gave the virus particle size as around 125 nanometers or 0.125 microns. That’s pretty damned small and way beyond the filtration capability of cloth and surgical masks. But the good news is that you don’t have to filter out individual virus particles to slow down the virus distribution. An infected person transmits it via exhaled air or, more forcefully, by sneezing or coughing. Thus the filtration challenge to the mask is not individual viruses but droplets or aerosols that contain clusters of the virus. So what you are trying to stop is significantly larger than a single virus. I’ve read that droplets, such as found in a sneeze, are 5 to 10 microns; aerosol particles ranging around 0.5-3 microns. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a great variation in the published data. If anyone has any good sources please let me know.
The filtration effectiveness of the mask is measured relative to the size of the filter challenge. An N95 respirator will remove 95% of 0.3+ micron particles. What size particles do the various available surgical and cloth face coverings stop? That depends, of course. It’s definitely not 0.3 like the N95s. But what filtration efficiency do we need in order to declare that masks are an effective countermeasure in the fight against coronavirus?
I think by now most reasonable people are convinced that even simple masks properly worn and used by an infected person (including asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic cases) will significantly cut down the amount of contamination that person releases via exhaled air or sneezes and coughs. But what about protection afforded to the wearer of the mask being another incentive for wearing them?
I firmly believe that a mask, properly worn and used in conjunction with distancing and hygiene, will reduce my risk of getting infected. No I can’t quantify the risk reduction, but based on what I know I believe it to be significant. It pains me, therefore, to see constant references to the masks being “useless” in terms of protecting the wearer. Even the experts have made comments close to that, thankfully, less so more recently. I think their reluctance to endorse the idea of masks protecting the wearer is based on concerns regarding proper mask usage and potential relaxation of other mitigation measures because of a false sense of security. But these are issues that can be handled with proper education of the public, can’t they?
So it’s a very complicated problem and accurate quantifiable assessments of the efficacy of masks (especially cloth masks) in reducing the spread of coronavirus is beyond our reach at this time. But we shouldn’t get hung up on an “all or nothing approach”. We can’t yet eliminate the Covid-19 infection threat. But we can surely reduce the risk: Distancing + Hygiene + Masks + Common Sense
(With regard to Sweden: A July 21 opinion piece by 25 Swedish doctors and scientists characterizes the Swedish approach as a failure. It concludes with “don’t do it the Swedish way.” - https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/21/coronavirus-swedish-herd-immunity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/ )
(I posted an earlier topic on masks at: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-656094-1.html#11402347)
If I understand you right, you are looking for evi... (
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This makes a lot of sense and I agree with and relate to almost all you outlined. Very even handed response and appreciate the sentiment.
I certainly will continue to wear a mask, but you've understood my question well and agree that the ability to quantify the effectiveness for society is quite elusive.
I'd distance a bit from the "Sweden approach" topic in general - since even they admit they did not emphasize protecting the elderly as well as they should. I've never suggested that we should follow them or their rules, but rather find them as a unique piece of the puzzle concerning masks. Had they protected the more vulnerable, maybe they would be less of a cautionary tale. 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' may apply here.