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Apr 2, 2020 20:01:06   #
robertjerl wrote:
Last I saw a total of 7 auto and aircraft companies in the US are starting to make the high end ventilators as well as some small companies making the simplified designs some people have come up with.

Duh! You clean and sterilize the CPAP frequently and change the little filter on the intake frequently. And other health people/institutes disagree with your linked article.

Besides how does the CPAP differ from just breathing out if the patient already has C****-**, other than a bit of a change in volume of air expelled? And I would assume the medical people giving the care are already taking precautions for themselves and also for the other patients.

If it is a case of "we haven't got the ventilators" so you are going to die and "maybe" a lesser machine or a CPAP can save you. I and most people will take the "maybe" any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

At the rate production is being started and expanded in a relatively short time it will be a moot point anyway.
The big question is will the politicians and more importantly the bureaucrats learn from this and keep domestic production capacity on line for general medical devices and supplies as well as create realistic stockpiles for fast response. Also they need to bring the medication/drug manufacturing process back and end the dependence on China.

I saw articles that several places that got Chinese test kits, masks etc found the stuff was junk and are refusing any future gear from all but a few of the older established Chinese companies with a proven track record.
In addition some of the ventilators from Federal stock piles that were released proved to be non-operative because when the contract for regular maintenance expired the bureaucrats took almost a year to get a new contract in place resulting in machines that either don't work at all or don't meet specs anymore. Seems those high end ventilators are like modern cars and other machines - regular maintenance is needed to keep ones in storage in operative condition.
Last I saw a total of 7 auto and aircraft companie... (show quote)


It's good to know there are several companies committed to produce more ventilators. God Bless them.

Re: CPAP use in mild breathing problems on patients ill with c****av***s, I don't believe it's the issue of cleaning or sanitizing the machine. It is more the issue of the v***s becoming more aerosolized thus spreading the v***s to others. This became an issue not only with the nursing home patients in Kirkland, WA with current c****av***s strain but also past c****av***s epidemic, SARS, 2003.

The American Society of Anesthesiologists issued guidance on Feb. 23 discouraging CPAP use in C****-** patients — advice largely informed by experience with the SARS epidemic in 2003. Studies dating to 2003 suggest that such devices can pump v***ses into the air, potentially increasing the spread of a contagious disease.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/27/822211604/cpap-machines-were-seen-as-ventilator-alternatives-but-could-spread-c****-**

Re: made in China face masks and test kits were found defective by Netherlands, Spain, and Turkey.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/netherlands-recalls-defective-masks-imported-china-200329141715106.html

Re: meds and drugs processing in China to bring back to US - I'm with you on this 100%. Here's are frightening numbers: Chinese pharmaceutical firms have captured 97 percent of the U.S. market for antibiotics and more than 90 percent of the market for vitamin C. In 2018, 95 percent of ibuprofen, 91 percent of hydrocortisone, 70 percent of acetaminophen, and 40–45 percent of heparin imported to the United States came from China, according to the U.S. Commerce Department.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/c****av***s-disrupt-us-drug-supply-shortages-fda
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Apr 2, 2020 17:17:18   #
elliott937 wrote:
I'm a news hound. When not teaching or doing photography, I'm always following all the news I can.

This morning, on the Today Show, a highly respected medical expert in New York said:

New York today? That's the way the rest of the country will be in ... 2 weeks.

Thanks eye opening.



In my humble opinion, it all depends on every state's own response to the goal of flattening the curve.

In states that seem to be working harder achieving this goal such as CA and WA, it seems to be slowly paying off. That is, there are signs that the curve is beginning to flatten in these particular states (according to latest report by Drs. Fauci and Birx). Bottom line is, it all depends on how each state takes this virus seriously.

Below photo of a NYC Domino Park where sunbathers gathered right after Gov. Cuomo plea for New Yorkers to practice social distancing while coronavirus wreak havoc. Photo taken just 5 days ago.

Social distancing works. Don't believe me - history has already demonstrated it in the Influenza Pandemic of 1918-1919. I call it "A Tale of Two Cities: St. Louis and Philadelphia."

https://www.wsls.com/features/2020/03/18/2-cities-handled-this-health-crisis-different-the-results-couldnt-have-been-more-opposite/
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Apr 2, 2020 16:44:39   #
Rongnongno wrote:
This is going to be controversial, I can feel it in bones...

We see less pollution in major cities and the skies according to the data presented. All good and fine but...

I get the sinking feeling that this v***s is not going to help at all. While the skies appear bluer already the real pollution is way high in the air and this is what causes the green house effect. This has not gone away.

The in between pollution (surface/high altitude) has been reduced. This has a side effect, the sun heat dispersed by the air pollution is now straight onto the surface with the potential or creating a surge of temperature. Everything will be warmer everywhere precipitating and ecological disaster faster then anticipated. If water get warmer, storms will be stronger, evaporation will be faster, feeding into the storm system. Ice/snow will also melt faster leaving areas with less water than ever before.

Think of it as being on a beach and you use an umbrella for protection. You feel slightly cooler but the environment will still keep you warm. The umbrella also cuts on rays that are unhealthy. Remove the umbrella and now you are fully exposed to the sun by the time it took you to remove the umbrella.

Now consider clouds passing over the sun. The temperatures drops almost immediately as the umbrella effect affects everything that surrounds you.

The mid-air pollution acts as a dampener against direct sun ray as the light/energy is reflected and trapped in the higher layer. Remove the mid-air pollution and we remove the dampener and 'shield'. We now have more light and energy hitting the ground.

I am well aware that I am not a scientist and likely just an i***t that now has too much time on his hand but... Logic and observation seem to converge.

So... (the v***s stuff)

This means that the v***s will have 'screwed' with us at three levels... Health, economy and environment... On the other hand less surface and mid air pollution means less difficulties to breathe...

I have no scientific data to support this opinion and it is just a stray thought about what can happen.

What are your thoughts on this subject?
This is going to be controversial, I can feel it i... (show quote)



Humidity could be helpful in relieving the symptoms of c****av***s, as well as preventing it from spreading, if evidence from flu research is an indication.

Studies have shown that water in the air could slow the spread of influenza. Will it hold true for c****av***s, as well.

I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.
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Apr 2, 2020 16:11:06   #
pmorin wrote:
I don’t have a link. I may be mistaken but I thought the doctor on yesterday’s Trump press conference said it.


The WHO was very emphatic about their stand regarding not using face masks in public for reason given i.e., we need them for the medical personnel and front line healthcare workers.

CDC at present does not recommend the use of face mask in public. But it's under consideration. My opinion is, with strong evidence that at least 25% (another news outlet puts it as 25-50%) of the coronavirus-infected but remaining asymptomatic are spreading the virus although unknowingly, CDC has no choice. I am sure they will continue to emphasize not to use the N95 respirators and leave them for the medical personnel, and suggest DIY face masks, using CDC specs, instead.
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Apr 2, 2020 16:04:58   #
robertjerl wrote:
I browsed a bunch of articles about the shortage of ventilators. It seems the ones they are using, and say they want/need, are sort of the equivalent of a Rolls Royce Limited Edition SUV (is there such a thing?). In other words way more than needed most of the time and therefore more expensive. A few people have designed lower end devices that do what is the basic function - push air into the lungs. One is just a robot arm that works one of the hand held rubber bulb types to force air into the lungs - normally used by someone holding it and squeezing-releasing in the correct rhythm. Others are a bit more advanced but do the basic job. I suggested on one on line thread that handyman types could modify all kinds of air pumps in an emergency and was made fun of - well that seems to be happening. I suggested that CPAP machines would work for people with mild breathing problems and was made fun of. Well I have seen an online/TV interview where one Health Official was asking for CPAP machines that aren't being used to be donated - for use with mild cases.

My wife is a retired Surgical Nurse and used to having only the best to work with. When she questioned my "emergency" ideas and the things like the robot arm that squeezes the bulb I asked her "If you are in danger of death and they are short of gear/meds would you rather they use something that sorta works and gives you a chance or have the hospital Chaplain say a prayer over you and wave bye bye?" Her response "OH!"
I browsed a bunch of articles about the shortage o... (show quote)



I believe PM Boris Johnson of UK asked Rolls Royce to produce ventilators. Here in the US, Ford and GM also agreed to manufacture ventilators.

As for use of CPAP or BiPAP to help c****av***s patients with mild breathing problems - first responders in the Kirkland, WA nursing home (Life Care Center) used CPAP for these particular patients but were unaware at that time of the harmful consequences, hastened the spread of v***s.

Not So Fast Using CPAPs In Place Of Ventilators. They Could Spread The C****av***s.

https://khn.org/news/c***d19-ventilator-shortage-substituting-cpaps-could-spread-c****av***s/

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Apr 2, 2020 15:48:53   #
pmorin wrote:
Yes, but just yesterday they made the exact recommendation that you describe. They said to be safe, they think it would be best if everyone wore a mask, but don’t take the N95’s from the medical personnel.


I think CDC is still discussing it. I have not seen an OFFICIAL news release from CDC to that effect.

If I missed it, would you kindly post the link here.

Thanks.
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Apr 2, 2020 15:29:33   #
pmorin wrote:
In Palm Springs the wearing of a mask is required by the county health agency. They recommend using 3 plys of cloth to make one if you can’t get any commercially made ones. And no one but medical personnel should be using the N95 masks. The logic being that even though the virus is microbial, the water droplets you expel when talking are much larger and the cloth, although not 100% effective, will lessen the odds of you spreading the virus. As some people carry the virus and display no symptoms, this precaution will help to “flatten the curve” until science can find an effective vaccine.
In Palm Springs the wearing of a mask is required ... (show quote)


Yep! Saw that. Good for you, guys. You're ahead of the curve. But that's a local edict. I am referring to a more broader authority that is, the CDC and WHO. They always seem content playing behind the curve.

CDC also seems to doubt the people's resolve to vanquish this virus. Yes, N95 respirators and surgical masks should be reserved for the medical personnel and front line healthcare workers. I believe the American public understand that clearly. But if CDC asks them to use only DIY face masks following CDC specs for the country's sake and survival, I believe 99.9% of the American people would comply.
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Apr 2, 2020 15:25:50   #
robertjerl wrote:
Because though many like the My Pillow company are switching to mask and gown production it takes time and China had the masks available NOW.

In a few weeks when our production ramps up to speed the US will not have a shortage of most PPE supplies and will be supplying things to other nations like the Southern Hemisphere where the high temps of their summer have made the P******c fairly small up to now. And if that doesn't happen then the 50 states and Federal Gvt can stock pile for the future in the amounts they should have before. And I hope they also bring production of any and all medical supplies and medicines back to the US. Switch facilities over to production of these things, stockpile (and maintain) supplies for the future. Then mothball the production facilities or keep them going at the level needed in normal times so they are there "in case" for the future.
Because though many like the My Pillow company are... (show quote)


Well said!

A very costly lesson. I hope our nation's powers-that-be, present and future, learn from this.

This Russian proverb should apply to the CCP, as well – Doveryai, no proveryai.

Even better,

投资前先进行调查
Tóuzī qián xiān jìnxíng diàochá
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Apr 2, 2020 14:06:12   #
Bob Mevis wrote:
With the shortage of medical masks what do you think about western neckerchiefs as an alternative?


A neckerchief is a piece of fabric, usually square or triangular in shape, that is worn around the neck. Neckerchiefs can be worn for stylistic reasons, or they are often worn as part of a uniform.

Wearing it (neckerchief) alone - not. (Not going to help in preventing you from spreading the virus if you're infected, or preventing others from infecting you).

Wearing it (neckerchief) with a face mask and your goal is to prevent getting infected by others - may be (defending on the type of mask, properly wearing it, hygiene, social distancing you observe).

Wearing it (neckerchief alone) to prevent others from getting infected by you (assuming you're infected) - not.

Wearing it in addition with a face mask to prevent you (infected) from infecting others - yes, it helps in preventing the spread of virus to (non-infected) people.

The last one is now being discussed by the CDC as to the issue of, "to wear or not to wear" mask (not neckerchief) in public, based on latest findings that at least 25% of infected but asymptomatic people are spreading the virus, unknowingly. Watch for the announcement soon from CDC changing their recommendation to "YES" to wearing mask in public from "No." However, CDC will most likely say reserve the N95 respirators and surgical masks to the healthcare workers (completely understood) and will ask public to wear DIY mask in public with CDC specifications.
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Apr 2, 2020 13:03:06   #
Stash wrote:
The New England Patriots' team plane is being used to t***sport 1.2 million N95 masks from Shenzhen, China, to the United States.
According to The Wall Street Journal, the t***sfer was the result of multiple global negotiations and the Massachusetts governor, Charlie Baker, calling on Patriots team president Jonathan Kraft for his help in acquiring the masks.

The Patriots' plane had to be upgraded for international travel and a waiver to avoid a 14-day quarantine in China was granted if the crew did not leave the aircraft, according to the Journal.

"I've never seen so much red tape in so many ways and obstacles that we had to overcome," Patriots owner Robert Kraft said, according to the Journal. "In today's world, those of us who are fortunate to make a difference have a significant responsibility to do so with all the assets we have available to us."

The Kraft family paid $2 million, about half the cost, to acquire the masks, according to the newspaper. The initial order was for 1.7 million masks, but only 1.2 million could fit on the plane. The remainder of the masks are set to be delivered in another shipment, the Journal reports.

Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker gave a "huge thanks to the Krafts and several dedicated partners for making this happen" in a tweet Thursday morning.

"It is an honor for our family to be a part of this humanitarian mission," Robert Kraft said in a statement. "We knew that purchasing greatly-needed N95 masks and providing the Patriots plane to expedite their delivery to local hospitals would immediately help protect our courageous healthcare professionals. Multiple organizations across the public and private sectors, all of which were in lockstep with Governor Charlie Baker's visionary leadership, worked together to execute this mission with the purpose of helping save lives.

"I truly hope that in doing so, we can in some way inspire others to find creative ways to give more in support of our doctors, nurses and first responders. It's nice to care for those who provide such compassionate care for us."

Of the total, 300,000 masks have been pledged to New York state, which has the most c****av***s cases in the country with more than 83,000. Massachusetts has more than 7,700 c****av***s cases and more than 120 people have died due to the v***s.

The Patriots' plane, which was allowed on the ground in China for only three hours, according to the Journal, is expected to arrive at Boston Logan International Airport on Thursday.
According to Politico, the Massachusetts National Guard will then t***sport the masks to a strategic stockpile in Marlborough, Massachusetts.
The New England Patriots' team plane is being used... (show quote)



Nice gesture on the part of Mr. Kraft but. . .

. . .when it comes to masks, test kits, etc., careful what you get from China. . .

. . .read on (Not taking sides here. Just the facts.)


Netherlands recalls defective masks imported from China

Spain and Turkey also complain of defective rapid testing kits ordered from Chinese companies.

Dutch officials have recalled tens of thousands of masks imported from China and distributed to hospitals battling the c****av***s outbreak because they do not meet quality standards.

They received a delivery of masks from a Chinese manufacturer on March 21, the health ministry said in a statement.

The masks did not meet their standards when they were inspected. Part of the shipment had already been distributed to health professionals, the statement said.

"The rest of the shipment was immediately put on hold and has not been distributed. A second test also revealed that the masks did not meet the quality norms. Now it has been decided not to use any of this shipment," it said. Future shipments would undergo extra testing.

The recall concerned nearly half of the shipment of 1.3 million masks, known as FFP2, the public television channel NOS reported.

The problem with the masks was they did not close over the face properly, or had defective filters, the station added.

Other complaints:

The Netherlands was not the only country to raise concerns over faulty supplies from China.
Spain announced last week that it would return more than 600,000 rapid testing kits it had purchased from a Chinese company after testing on an imported batch revealed they had a 30 percent detection rate, reported Euronews.

Turkey's health minister raised similar issues during a news conference on Friday, saying rapid testing kit samples from a Chinese company did not meet the country's effectiveness standards. He added another Chinese firm had instead been selected to provide the kits.

France's Health Minister Olivier Veran also announced he ordered more than a billion masks, notably from China, to help the country fight the c****av***s p******c. It remains unclear if France will cancel its order.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/netherlands-recalls-defective-masks-imported-china-200329141715106.html
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Apr 1, 2020 21:46:55   #
Rathyatra wrote:
This an extremely serious issue but it does not hurt to lighten the mood for time to time.


Thanks for a good laugh.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:34:07   #
SteveR wrote:
Sometimes you've just gotta take your parents' advice!!

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/dad-spring-break-coronavirus-banned-house



The saga continues. Father knows best.

Breaking: Home from spring break, dozens of college students test positive for the virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/world/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html

"If I get corona, I get corona."

Hold my beer.


(Download)


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Apr 1, 2020 12:32:42   #
New estimates show 25% to 50% of c****av***s carriers don't even have symptoms and can infect others blindly

WOW!!! To make matters worse, c****av***s is highly contagious. With an Ro (R-naught) estimated at about 3.5, no wonder it didn't take long for US to reach #1 in number of cases of c****av***s infection. "Ro" is the average number of people 1 infected person can spread the v***s in an unv******ted population. If unmitigated, the number of cases would rise exponentially.

South Korea (and other Asian countries) knew it quite sometime ago and mandated its citizens to wear masks in public. Another opportunity to learn something to get ahead of the curve missed, leading to potentially disastrous results.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/health/us-c****av***s-updates-wednesday/index.html

In my opinion, soon, US CDC will change its recommendation from DON'T wear mask in public to YES, you can using DIY masks (with CDC specifications). With such strong evidence, CDC has no choice.

Just my 2 cents.
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Mar 31, 2020 09:57:29   #
PaulG wrote:
I think Sunnely's disappointment probably extends to a larger general group not being exposed to this interview by it being posted in the Attic rather than for general consumption - baring in mind a great deal (not all) those who visit the Attic are extremely unwavering in their views and quite hostile at times and not those most likely to benefit.


My sentiments exactly.

My message is plain and simple i.e., just expressing my disappointment with the Admin's move to vanquish the post to the Attic. Not questioning or demanding an explanation from the powers-that-be for such move. I completely understand that I am merely a visitor here. Their house, their rules. But, last time I check we still live in a free country and expressing one's opinion still valued.

An opportunity for a number of people to learn about a major crisis facing the nation, missed. That is sad. That's all.

Another opinion: Watch for an important future announcement from US CDC, a change in their recommended guideline - recommending use of DIY face mask (following CDC specifications) for the people out in public, something that is already widely practiced in South Korea. Reason - those "healthy" but infected and asymptomatic people can spread the v***s without knowing it and use of face mask can reduce the spread.

"There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." ---Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I give the others the last word.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:03:45   #
Doddy wrote:
Very good interview on something so bad.


It's unfortunate that the Admin decided to relegate this post to the Attic. I am surprised by that move because the information provided by the doctor who was interviewed is based on factual evidence and knowledge accumulated from past experiences treating other v***l diseases such as SARS, MERS, EBOLA.

The title, "We can learn from South Korea" on how to fight our own battle with c****av***s is not a misinformation. For example, if the Admin watched the video, he would have noticed that the intro shows South Koreans wearing face masks in public, which is strongly recommended by the government to reduce spread of the v***s.

This makes sense because evidence suggests C****-** could be t***smitted before symptom onset, community t***smission might be reduced if everyone, including people who have been infected but are asymptomatic and contagious, wear face masks.

In short, an unknown number of (C****-**) infected but asymptomatic people are walking around in public spreading the v***s not realizing they're doing it. Ergo, based on the above-mentioned evidence, wearing a mask will significantly reduce the spread of the v***s. This, along with social distancing and observing hygiene, will help us achieve our goal of "flattening the curve."

The US CDC doesn't recommend Americans to wear face masks in public during the current c****av***s outbreak, a recommendation criticized by the South Korean expert in the video. But wait, the CDC may be changing this recommendation and allow the American public to wear face masks in public. If approved, this would be a step in right direction and an example that the US CDC is learning from the now-common practice in South Korea in fighting c****av***s. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/2020/03/30/6a3e495c-7280-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html

And oh, did I mention South Korea dropped from number 2 spot in the number of cases worldwide to now no. 12 in about a month?

Sad to see this piece of very informative video sent to the Attic.

Just my 2 cents.
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