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Posts for: BarbB
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Mar 16, 2021 18:43:20   #
amfoto1 wrote:
Like some others who have responded, I suspect the problem here is monitor calibration. If your monitor or his monitor or BOTH your monitors are mis-adjusted, there's virtually no way images can match from one to the other. Might happen that both monitors are equally out of sync, but the odds against that are about a billion to one.

Most computer monitors simply don't display images very accurately. The vast majority from new are way too bright for proper photo editing and that causes people to adjust their images too dark. Usually this shows up in too dark prints, but it would also be very obvious to someone else who is using a calibrated monitor.

Most monitors also typically don't render color very accurately. This is trickier than brightness to get "right". It's more subtle and quite difficult to do by eye.

Add to this that as monitors age they lose brightness and shift how they render color.

Calibration is the solution. Not just once, but on a relatively regular basis (once a month works for me... some people do it more often, others do it less often).

You need a software/hardware "suite" like a Datacolor Spyder or an X-Rite i1Display. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Color-Management-Hardware/ci/12000/N/3806301650?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_host-system_6982%3Amonitors%2Cfct_brand_name%3Adatacolor%7Cx-rite%2Cfct_calibration-type_2612%3Acolor-calibration-system

Those include a "colorimeter" device to take measurements from the monitor and software to run and interpret it the readings from it. You start the process by setting brightness (how much varies from monitor to monitor, but for example when my current monitor was new it's default brightness setting was around "50" and the Spyder I use had me reduce that to "20".... But it's grown dimmer over time and now, after quite a few years use, I have to set it close to "60" for correct brightness). Once correct brightness has been established, the software runs a series of color test patches and takes readings from them. Those are used to make a "color profile" that the software then applies to the monitor, making its color rendition as accurate as possible.

Monitor calibration is a relatively quick and easy process once you've done it.

And being that you are in a photography club, you might be in the ideal situation to all pitch in to buy a calibration device and share using it. (Check the licensing of any product for how many users are possible.)

I looked at your image in Photoshop on my calibrated monitor. To me it appears somewhat dark.... maybe 1/2 to 1 stops. The image histogram pretty much confirms that it's a relatively dark image... though maybe that was your intent. To me it also looks a little too "warm". I suspect it's an early morning or late afternoon "golden hour" shot. That can be really great light. But in this case to me the warming effect seems a little too strong and mutes the contrast between the fall leaves and blues of the sky and water. Below is how I would have adjusted the images, compared alongside your original. I'm not saying "right" or "wrong" because a lot of this is very subjective. Notice how other colors... especially yellows and blues... are livened up by reducing the strong warming effects. Notice the difference in the clouds.

Again, aside from using a calibrated monitor for what I think may be a more accurate exposure, the color rendition is "to taste" and there's no right or wrong. I wasn't there and didn't see the scene... didn't see it through your eyes... and can't see how it displays on your computer monitor or on that of the other club member. Also, if it were my image, I probably would have done a a little careful dodging and burning... and maybe cloned out a few things, too. But it's not my shot, so I didn't do any of that.

BTW, I agree with some other responses... It's a lovely shot! That's why I'd like to be see it edited some more and finished as fully and carefully as possible.
Like some others who have responded, I suspect the... (show quote)


I like what you did in edit :-).. And yes, it was taken late afternoon in Acadia...But, you can see why I was confused when the image appeared lighter on the zoom screen for judging..when it was "dark" to my eye.. Thanks for all your suggestions!!
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Mar 16, 2021 18:37:09   #
photoman43 wrote:
I agree with most of the responders that the culprit has to do with calibration of the monitor(s) or lack thereof.

The person whose screen is used for the competition judging should be able to tell all in the camera club what calibration system he/she is using and what particular monitor and monitor settings are being used. Almost all monitors and laptop screens come from the factory with brightness set way too high. Some software calibration software also allow you to input certain variables, like luminence level for the calibration and some monitors work better and different levels and room lighting also plays a role as to what level is set. I also seem to recall that some monitors might need to have the brightness setting reduced manually before using the calibration software for that software to work correctly.

My camera club uses Zoom right now to judge competition images. There are three judges each onth (and they differ each month too) and it is pretty obvious to all in the club that each judge's screen portrays the image differently when judged. And when we view it at the Zoom meeting it is on another person's screen. The biggest issue deals with image brightness, not color renderings.

Some have had very poor results in calibrating laptop screens so that is another issue too.
I agree with most of the responders that the culpr... (show quote)


Thank you! That is exactly what I am experiencing..makes me feel etter I am not alone :-)
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Mar 16, 2021 18:35:46   #
dpullum wrote:
Yes, I love gadgets, but KIS is often better, and free is much lower cost than a gadget attached to the monitor to tell you something your eye does not see. Give a look at
http://sfwallpaper.com/wallpaper/getpic.html
one of many images for calibration from:
https://sfwallpaper.com/categories/monitor-color-calibration-image.html

OK, now you have your monitor calibrated... how does the club view images a 1995 CTR? Projected? [projected and monitor images are two different worlds] or On a modern LED monitor. And... do they calibrate their image display? What color gamut do you and the club use, same? Do they have one laptop that receives the club email images? Simply stated, do you have a problem because the club has a problem?

What email browser do they use, is yours the same? If not set up a separate one the same as theirs. Did they ever calibrate their expensive calibration device and did the laptop they used hooked to the projector harmonize with correct brightness and contrast and color?

Email the calibration image and copy yourself, does emailing change the calibration image?

Wow, what a list!! My sympathies, I had similar problems with a Camera Club, once I tweeted my brightness and contrast to be out of calibration [?] like theirs my images looked much better at meetings. Food analogy: Once you add more cyan-pepper to your chili the judges may say you are a great cook because chili should look red and be a bit too hot.
Yes, I love gadgets, but KIS is often better, and ... (show quote)


Thanks for your suggestions!
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Mar 16, 2021 18:34:52   #
Delderby wrote:
Post him a 6x4 print and em him the JPG so that he can immediately see the diff when he views on his screen. It may just be that he is running an auto color adjust?
I'd like to add that your pic is beautiful and well woth entering.


Thank you. I will try showing him a print. good idea!
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Mar 15, 2021 12:40:00   #
burkphoto wrote:
Your sample looks great on my freshly calibrated monitor. Is it possible that the club has some specifications that are different from your file? Maybe there's a profile mismatch? I don't see anything unusual in this image, either visually, or in the extremely restricted metadata. It would make a decent 6x4 inch print at any lab. Since Bay Photo is one of the better labs, I DON'T think your file is your problem.

It may be that the color gamut of your own monitor is much wider than the color gamut of their monitor or projector. It could be that their monitor/projector is not properly calibrated and profiled. Or it could be that their presentation system is not color managed at all.

I've spoken at a couple of camera club meetings where the images I brought were displayed with absolutely awful video projectors. One of those presentations was on color management! The images I projected with their equipment were awful on screen, but the prints I brought looked great on — i.e.; matched — my iMac monitor. Thankfully, I brought the iMac, or I would have looked pretty stupid!

A camera club really ought to use decent monitors or projectors. They should calibrate and profile their presentation devices regularly, just to meet minimal standards for sRGB (or better, P3 or Adobe RGB). And they should choose calibration aims that are similar to lab standards (i.e.; the standards used by PPA for their competitions).

One thing to check, if they're using a projector, is the screen. If it's lenticular, or glass-beaded, it's quite possible your images will appear different from every place in the room. My preference is for a flat, matte white projection screen surface. If they're using a wall, it needs to be painted pure white with a paint that includes NO optical brighteners.

Another thing to check is the age of the projector lamp. Those things tend to go way out of specification as they age, requiring frequent re-calibration and fresh profiling.
Your sample looks great on my freshly calibrated m... (show quote)

Thanks for your help! The club is only doing it by zoom and the leader shared his screen for competition. When it is safe fir on person meetings, I have no idea what they use.. I am new to the area snd club
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Mar 15, 2021 12:37:00   #
via the lens wrote:
Your image is highly saturated and it's possible that the gamut range is more than the projector can handle. Projectors in general have a low ability to handle gamut range. You might consider using the Proof option in LrC and clicking on sRGB and monitor and then sending that as a test file to see if it works better for you.

Thanks! I will try that!
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Mar 15, 2021 12:36:20   #
Fotoartist wrote:
First off, your image is Outstanding! It would be first place in my club. Secondly, I have the same equipment as you and have similar problems with my images when projected in my club (which has the same requirements as yours). Third, that is why I like doing prints for competition.

Thank you! When we eventually meet in person , I can do prints.. but it helps to know others have had similar experiences.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:35:46   #
Ernie Misner wrote:
When a person does the calibrating process, you still have to put in a target figure for the brightness that you want to see. I have my NEC monitor set for a value of 100 for example. The default value for my colorimeter is 140 which was way too bright. Common brightness settings when running the colorimeter are often between 100 and 110 or so. So it is possible that both computers are "calibrated" for color, but to different brightness levels.

I just set my brightness on the monitor...should it be set someplace else?
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Mar 14, 2021 21:11:41   #
Orphoto wrote:
Right. But if his screen is not calibrated, and yours is, that can easily explain the discrepancy.


Yes I thought of that .. and I have no idea if others in the group have the same issue.. I’m new to the group, so I don’t really know the other participants to ask
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Mar 14, 2021 20:05:39   #
BebuLamar wrote:
I suspect that the individual who displays all the pictures doesn't have his screen calibrated and the brightness crank up too high. But OP, did you see your image on his screen?


It was his screen that was shared for the zoom photo competition
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Mar 14, 2021 19:10:01   #
Orphoto wrote:
Well for instance, when we used a projector for in person meetings, I realized my images were consistently too dark. So I started adding .5 stop additional exposure before sending them in. In your case the consistent fudge factor might move in the opposite direction

If the situation permits, you might check in with the club projectionist and arrange for some private showings with known images and see if you can find a regular discrepancy that you can correct for.


OK..I now see what you mean about changing expoure!
Right now, because of covid, we are doing these competitions all by zoom.. the person that coordinates it all, has ofered to do a one on one facetime meeting with me to see if we can figure it out.....I thought I would ask this group for ideas, so that I have some possible solutions, before I did that. He was at a loss for answers as well, when I asked him about it at first.
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Mar 14, 2021 18:33:43   #
Orphoto wrote:
Hi Barb.

The usual culprit is calibration, either on your end or with the club's projection system. In the last year or so using Zoom style processes have added an additional layer of frustration.

The image you provided looks good on my calibrated monitor but know that it is fairly high contrast and is also pushing the gamut limits for saturation.

Often the most practical approach is to develop a consistent exposure adjustment that brings your expectations closer in line to what the club distributes.
Hi Barb. br br The usual culprit is calibration, ... (show quote)

Thanks.. but not sure what you mean by consistent exposure adjustment.. I agree about contrast and saturation in image.. but when displayed with club the tree was way more orange and entire picture looked like the black point was off ( much lighter)..
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Mar 14, 2021 18:26:43   #
Longshadow wrote:
To the OP ► Is this the actual file that you sent them?

Yes
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Mar 14, 2021 18:07:27   #
CHG_CANON wrote:
Attach and store the image so we can see and suggest the cause from the actual file, that is the export version you sent.


this is one of the images in question


(Download)
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Mar 14, 2021 17:34:27   #
I am part of a photo club that does monthly competitions. I use a Mac desktop and Lightroom, export my images to my desktop and then forward, by email to the club. The club requires no greater than 2 MB in file size, and 1400 horizontal, 1050 vertical.
The individual that handles the images uses a windows computer, and uses IrfanView program to display all the competing photos. When my images come up for the club competition, they appear very different from what I see on my computer. They seem to have higher exposure, and tend to look more washed out. I have sent up pictures (for competition) that have been printed (by bay photo) that look the same as on my computer. Because printed and my computer display are the same, I was wondering if I need to export differently for them to appear correctly when I compete? I have opened the images in bridge, and they are the same as on my desktop and in Lightroom.. Any advise would be appreciated.
Thank you!
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