Hay charlessmall18: Checked out your serious and perverted photos, WoW, great work of manipulation.

To all, please read my "better to under buy than over buy" comments on page 2. About 1/2 way down the page.

The sony 230 has no Video, has no live view, no articulated screen. Advice please.

Please comment on my view. I am seriously considering a Sony 230. Advice and personal experience please.
d/p Don

Education for me is reading articles in photo mags at the local library,,,, Barns & Noble while enjoying tea and a Scone.

Second and very good is the camera club i belong to, Tampabay Camera Club mytbcc.com 3 friday is competition and critique; 4th Friday is education and occasionally special speaker or outing on a Saturday. If you can find a great club then it is a wonderful social involvement and educational experience.

Regarding cameras; overbuying is worse than under buying. Too many toots whistles and bells can confuse. Simplicity is better. If I had my Ideal camera it would be like my old 1970's Ricoh with manual every thing and an exposure needle in the eyeview along with iso, speed, and f stop in the mater of seconds you set every thing in the eyeview. The camera would of course have a full size sensor with good electronics for raw/jpg processing. All of us grey beards took great shots with the "noble savage" type of , dare I say the word,,, Film camera.

I ask you a simple question - - how many of you when shooting an of-the-moment-shot has fooled with the histogram??? when do you find time to go into the menu within the menu?? You know the situation well enough ahead of time to preset and adjust the f stop for the light meter needle to be above or below center depending on the scene,,, 9 point light metering,,, humph. Use low ISO, Step up to subject meter the face, step back and focus long or short to accommodate blurred back ground or sharp. yep you got the idea,,, Brains Live Brains as the guys in "nite of the living dead would say." oops nite, jack up the iso.

So is it important that the Sony 320 does not have Facial Recognition or Video or GPS or Phone? Whatcha think??

Seriously, facial recognition, how important, that is a real and serious question i am asking before I buy one. d/p Don

FACE RECOGNITION??

Does the sony alpha 200, 230 have face recognition? If not is that significant?

The Chupacabra is a Sphynx hairless cat, with the oriental eyes of oriental actress Anna May Wong, and Halloween teeth all blended with layers. The cat is very loveable, by nature it has no fur and so wants to be close to humans, especially those with a high fever!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_%28cat%29

Yep, DB, some of my photos are Sweet, some Evil and it is the photo that leads the way.

This was the topic of debate at the mytbcc, camera club. When is it a photo and when a modified. All get some mod before printing and entering. HOWEVER, it was almost universal that saturation and sharpening beyond norm is the trend and ART is the norm because we can all create symphonies with plugins.

Chupacabra the Ultra Cat

If you got big bucks then go with Canon or Nikon and PhotoShop CS5.5 Suite...HOWEVER IF YOU ARE LIKE ME

Don't overlook Corel PSP x-3. The price is very low since X4 came out, got my box of ultra from Corel for 30$. It trails PS CS5 a little and a bunch in price!! The Ultra comes with many plugins which add to versatility. If you spend $ get Topaz Adjust for 50. Adjust give a wide range of magic effects. Down load both for 30days and work with them. PSP has an advantage; help is along the left and changes with the tool you are clicking on.

There is an advantage to Sony Alpha DSLR-A230 for entry: takes vintage Minolta AF Lenses, Low cost. By the way, Sony makes the sensors for Nikon. For a comparison of entry level cams Nikon, Canon, Sony see the following:

www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_DSLR_A230/video_review.shtml

My choice is easy, I have Minolta lenses.

To all, I look forward to your input and opinions. d/p Don

JOSO said "sinatraman it looks like just you and me today"

No, I am here watching you two sinister looking dudes. Taking notes. I believe you two have been influenced by watching "Pinky and the Brain" as children. (seriously, this is a worthwhile philosophical discussion, I found it interesting. Kudos,) d/p Don.

Joso and SinMan Incognito

Yep, Rick, right on. Simplicity and redundancy, and shoot shoot shoot, digital film is cheap and as are additional batteries.

Take your charger with you. When driving from the wedding to the reception recharge.

Relax and make it fun for you.

robertperry: BULL!!! But still one route to take. Have you forgotten the initial question? Shoot small wedding for a friend.

If you have a Nikon Canon flash that is older, and an adapter to your camera fine. Other brands of flash like vivatar work well. Consider that the circuit is basically the same. Yes the flash that is much more expensive and the camera communicate, but it is certainly not necessary to have that complication. With simple math you can find the f stop and pre plan you stage shots. ,,, goal is not to over expose or have harsh light. Not complicated. (unless you have to decide which flash focus setting, power out put to select etc on a very expensive complicated flash unit.

Like in a space shot ,,, redundancy is a safe goal. If equipment fails grab a backup. Most people do not look at auxiliary equipment brand names. Vivatar etc means nothing to most of the public. Camera perhaps, Canon and Nikon names and reputations are great, but other cameras also take great shots and then ask yourself, what are the shots to be used for. Most people adding friends shot use P&S cameras, perhaps even a 3 meg pix. Still good photos for slide show or even an 8x10. Remember people do not use an eye lope to examine for pixes.

When starting out use KISS, keep it simple shooter approach. Also do not invest great bucks for starting out. Recall All: the original question was about shooting a friends small wedding....

If you have the big $ to waste then by all means go to a photo equipment shop and have a 18 y/o novices tell you all about the virtues of the expensive equipment!! If you want want to really know about the equipment check the specifications and also educate your self regarding the circuit designs used for flashes and control units. I did not say design them, rather read about them.

Basically flashes have a charging circuit a trigger voltage and a flash tube. The flashes that communicate with cameras or with signals they pick up. The communicating ones are more complicated in the trigger circuit that regulates the duration of the flash and the power.

Personally I would rather have the versatility and reliability of 3 guide number 40 power than one guide 120. I use 2 PVC black 3/4 flash stands to give 45 degree fill along with my on camera flash and perhaps even a bracket flash off side of camera. All are about guide 40 and not expensive. Example Vivitar Sf-4000 Auto Bounce Zoom Slave Flash with Bracket $25 online ,, try one, read comments.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=low+cost+vivitar+flash&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5793476743257228559&sa=X&ei=GKt2TujXFJG4twewncSYCg&ved=0CIUBEPMCMAQ

Simplicity relates to your ability to control and the reliability of the equipment. When shooting, you do not have time to play with complicated controls. To be a good candid photographer at weddings you will be a Quick Draw McGraw.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Draw_McGraw)

Be aware that cameras have pre flash and red-eye flash. Brackets are easy and most any older flash will work if you use a switchable multi flash SYK-5 with time delay
http://www.camerachina.com/productxx.asp?id=1482

the concept is explained here
http://dpanswers.com/content/optical_flash.php
this site explains the details and has direct links to ebay units. Hay, low cost and they work.

These delayed flash remote flash conversion units are less than 15$us,,, not expensive. this allows you to use any old/new/borrowed/blue flash for the wedding.

Find the product on the camera-china site and then go to Ebay and order. I have had excellent luck ordering from china. Delivery is perhaps 2 weeks.

Hay, Areej, your going to do fine. Relax, have faith in self. Practice shooting and critiquing self. One error common is not taking a wide area compared t cutting off the head or feet. You can always crop, but hard to add.

And thank you for the start of this forum, I have picked up some good hints. It has also forced me to self evaluate.

thank you d/p Don

Yes LindySueWho, right on about contract and portfolio. yes, a bracket bound flash is good advice. more handy than the flash on a stick, but that is handy in some settings where hi flash angle is useful such as a crowd that could block flash. indeed, cameras are amazing brains that think so quickly. Memory is cheap and on can take 1000 on one chip. If shooting in raw, 40/gig or 320/8gig. still a lot of photos. And shoot lots of photos and then cull and/or combine in Montague. Shooting candid weddings, which fits the young style of life, anticipate and capture the moment,,, ANTICIPATE is the key. And take children at the wedding and moms and children. Those couples that arrive early are willing to smile for the birdy. be sure to take the ministers photo. Limo along fender to make it looooook loooong. and when they are going to leave be inside to take their photo you will note that there are lots of people taking the rice photos,,, so pass out your cards with EMail big and bold. "please send your photos to,, so they can be included as a cherished memory." Lots and lots of shots, diff angles, shoot shoot. Again I liked your poses. The heart made by arms is great Idea and can include rings fingers. I still feel that all horizontal is best. I find I really prefer vertical but practical is horizontal. Thanks for the tips LindySueWho. d/p Don

I have shot two weddings charging 500 for 5 hrs of shooting. Typically young do not have $ for big deal. I always advise them to get a commercial photographer to do their work. J WILLIAMS ADVICE: "in writing that you are not a professional photographer" AND add your choreographing of what photos you plan to shoot if possible and may add others. Ask their expectations ahead of time and write it and get their signature.

Your equip is much better than mine. I do the candid approach and consider my self as invisible during the ceremony and go where I think it is an advantage for the shot. Lighting has not been a problem since the stage is well lit. I take lots of aunt sally was there pictures before and after the event,,, reception.

I do my edit mostly a auto-adjust and crop. Certain photos are in a 8x10 file. the rest go onto become a DVD ... I have found that Ashampoo Slideshow 2, to be the best; I did trials on as many slide show programs,,, most failed some where,, many classic great ones had burn to disk problems. I have two P&S loaners for their best friends to use. 79$ each is all I paid,,, PS take good photos for slide shows. They play well from DVD on a 52" TV. Be modern, it is a different world now every thing is either 52 or on phone!!

I incorporate their photos and those of friends. I typically take 100+ and narrow to 50, then add 50 taken by others. (you can not be everyplace at the right time). I also give phone, email etc formats. They send off for their 8x10s to a lab of choice. oh yes, music track of their choice if they supply. And wait 3 weeks before finishing, since friends will keep sending to them and you will have to do over to add if you do not wait.

Be sure to take second camera, extra memory, batteries and use all. If you are reluctant to take $ from a friend, then have them buy equipment needed.

Flash... I use flash on a stick. 1/4inch dowel with 1/4 - 20 tpi connectors epoxied on ends. you are taking photo and holding flash to the side or above. I made 7' flash stands for stage from PVC plumbing parts (sections 18" all painted black, base gallon bucked with concrete.

Go to the church and take some pre photos,,, oops there is a window and at the ceremony time the sun is horizontal blazing in OUCH. Had that happen. That is also why manual is good advice that back lite will mess you up.

If you decide to do some for $$$ ask if you can use your friend as an example. Have a firm contract and get $$ up front and do not give final product. You can give a contact sheet so they can chose but have a big water mark across all. oh yes,,, also,,, take all at horizontal orientation since it make better show and contact sheet. People do not notice lots of stuff you as a photographer would be ashamed of,,,, at worse it is better than they take and they are use to and they are caught up in the moment.

BE BRAVE,,, d/p

We have beaten on Mr.G enough that is becoming repetitious. As in 1984 I will ask Mr. G. How many fingers do you see?

When he answered that 2+2 is 5 we know he is ready to submit photos not to his own internal judges, but to the judges of society working by rigid rules to degrade Picasso for not being realistic .... bla... bla....(and the third word) bla.

Signing off to sit on the bank and watch Mr. G. taking photos across the water. Mr. G. I am waving.