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Feb 20, 2024 01:02:26   #
Jimmy T wrote:
Thanks for the post, it makes me think and rethink my process.
While I still try to get the pic right with composition, lighting, etc. I still have to cast off those deeply imbedded ideas from my film days when each shot on film cost me $$$.
For the same reasons, I can't get used to "spray 'n pray", which in reality has some very practical applications. So I always shoot "Wide" to leave a generous amount of template material so that I may crop and still get a final 3:2 full-frame format crop of my files. Even my usual 3:2 “Final crop is “Wide” so that in the future I may crop to a different ratio* for different size prints. Sometimes I shoot very wide (all sides) so that I may get a portrait or landscape view. I also shoot wide in some cases to get a different perspective of a scene or several pics from one file. A lot of my "Keepers" are "Made" during post when I have time to study my files, and they have not yet become viable pics. I must admit that that 95% of the time I am not satisfied with anything without some PP. Sometimes I will revisit a file at a later date as my skills increase or if a program is meaningfully updated. Sometimes, if practical, I will reshoot the scene. Finally, I shoot wide when I am on a tour where straggling behind is frowned upon.

* 2:3/3:2 compatible Print sizes:
4x6
6x9
6.67x10
8x12
10x15
12x18
13.33x20
18x27
20x30
30x45
40x60

Best Wishes,
JimmyT Sends
Thanks for the post, it makes me think and rethink... (show quote)


Thanks.
I'm also not an advocate of spray n pray, but I would shoot n reshoot for new angles etc.
One scene I find continuous shots very useful beyond the norm is when doing a group photo.
At post, skewed mouths, closed eyes etc. can be swapped from the better set into a better final image.
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Feb 20, 2024 00:55:39   #
billnikon wrote:
Your quote, "One would need to Imagine the Photograph". Saw the Pied-billed Grebe, saw the frog, waited.


Very well done
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Feb 20, 2024 00:33:14   #
dpullum wrote:
Evan Sharboneau’s book, one on trick photography was inspiring to me years ago. He shows how to do things as you show in your group of guys.
https://trickphotographybook.com/


In my previous sample, it is easy to see the same subject in many poses, but the technique is actually often used. We just do not notice it as much.

Like these sample, every individual was either taken alone or in small groups, then composited together for the publication.


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Feb 20, 2024 00:22:33   #
R.G. wrote:
Even in cases where I think I can nail the composition I try to leave a bit of wiggle room, just in case some levelling or perspective shift is required. I try to do that habitually. I can imagine that if I was planning a composite it would be even more important to not frame the scene or the individual elements too tightly.


That certainly works.

I used a similar approach when I captured this photo.
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2019/2/24/t1-115927-wpp_5757eds.jpg

I have only a vague idea where the fireworks would be, so I just allowed space for it.
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2019/3/26/t1-240943-untitled_2a.jpg

In such cases, I try to balance out how much pixels I'm willing to sacrifice.
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Feb 19, 2024 22:22:56   #
Boiledtoast wrote:
In an effort to keep it simple, why not just use “post”, as in something done sometime after the shot, the term ‘processing’ is understood by all serious camera enthusiasts, anyway.


Post has too much meaning already:

1. send mail
2. show a picture, letter etc. somewhere
3. A tree without limbs and leaves used to hold electric lines
4. A pillar
5. ....

Post processing covers pretty much everything that happens after a certain step (processing), and to photography it fits well to what happens after the image was already captured ( & processed). It is a broad term but nevertheless easy to understand, even for those not into photography.
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Feb 19, 2024 03:45:19   #
We usually take photos to grab the moment.
A few plan ahead, and wait for the moment to happen.
Fewer still are those who create the moments themselves.

Often these photos are post processed to make it look better.
Some will go further of removing some elements to get the desired look.
Then there are those who would combine several images to create a totally new graphic.

In all these scenes, we consciously look for the right composition, before we press the button.
Instantaneously in snapshots, and more planned and specific as we delved deeper into post processing.

But when one reaches for the final frontier, when one strives to fully edit an image, then one needs to look beyond the good composition.

One would need to Imagine the Photograph.

Imagining the Photo is looking at it from the perspective of the finished image. Instead of consciously looking for the best composition of the present scene, we treat them as a separate element that will fit into the different final photo.

Hence, depending on the target outcome, we may opt to adjust the perspective, lighting, view angle etc. of scene being photographed.

This technique can used to composite individuals into a group photo.
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2020/3/15/t1-101788-me_myself_and_i.jpg

In the sample below, a single box is made into a group with a breakdown of how the shoot was planned.

Although this technique cater specifically to editing, being able to Imagine the photograph is like an open gate to fully understanding and planning a composition, and IMHO, something worthwhile to practice and keep in ones bag of techniques.


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Feb 15, 2024 04:19:02   #
markngolf wrote:
We lived in different neighbor hoods together!
Mark


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Feb 15, 2024 04:14:52   #
therwol wrote:
It leaves out the part of telling them to take their BB guns and don't shoot anyone's dog.


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Feb 14, 2024 23:45:05   #
JZA B1 wrote:
Which style is easier? Can it be made to look authentic if your subjects are posing? Is it more about the skill of the photographer or the "model"? (With most people not being professional models.)

Can a good photographer with non-models produce natural-looking but posted photographs?

Or should you try to shoot candid pictures if you want natural look and forget trying to pose people?


Neither is easier as they are complete opposites, hence not really an apples to apples comparison.
That would just depend on which one a photographer likes or more comfortable with.
Posing can be made to look authentic. Just look at the movies, where scenes are directed.
As for the skill, both will add their own magic. A good photographer can eke out good stuffs from a mediocre model, whilst a good model can give the best opportunities.

Do both. They both have their place.


Some scenes works best as candid photos;
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2020/11/7/t1-164218-12.jpg
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2020/3/16/t1-58547-gfl3e.jpg
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2022/12/28/2718-t1_325111_wpp9382cs.jpg


While posed images allows us to leverage our creativity.
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2019/10/1/t1-252097-dscf1515esig.jpg
https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2021/12/9/t1-47563-t1_254628_dsc_2752es2.jpg
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Feb 14, 2024 22:59:39   #
User ID wrote:
All answers can only be partial answers no matter how generalized we nay attempt to make them.

Its not enuf to clearly tell a story.
Its not enuf to just grab to attention.


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Jan 17, 2024 02:44:38   #
Ysarex wrote:
This has also been your stand: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-787932-32.html#14387177
"What I read about it that rubs the wrong way is that the cameras computer compared to the power and speed of a pc is what makes the difference in quality." There can be numerous reasons for quality differences but you're wrong to think that the processing power and speed of the camera isn't one of them.


Stop distorting facts to fit your narrative.Those two posts are answers to 2 different posts.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding what you read to fit your belief or really lacking in reading comprehension?
By the way, I still stand firm for both previous post.

To clarify, My disagreement is with the idea that the difference in quality relies on power of the camera vs power of a pc.

Why I can not agree with that thought?
The file is already in the buffer. The computer in the camera have the whole day to crunch the number if it wants to. The speed of the cameras computer is not a factor.

JPEG compression is the same whether it happens fast or slow, in the camera or at post.

The major factor are the settings chosen by the operator. Whether in camera or on an editing software afterwards, the brain behind the tools is what matters. In other words, don't blame the tool. Use it properly, where it is meant for and get the best result it can provide.

Which brings me to-why are you accusing me of not knowing what affects JPEG compression when you are the one who stated that the prepost settings are part of JPEG?

Summing up your slip-ups, it is very clear to me now that though you may show technical knowledge, you do not have the practical understanding of JPEG. You did not understand that my statement is not about JPEG compression, but rather about situations where JPEG is a poor choice, showing your ignorance if not arrogance of the subject. Sometimes you make me think of the adage; "those who can not do, teaches".

You have been a very clear advocate of RAW.
But you are now your showing us an image that you says is a good JPEG SOOC, to prove I am wrong because your shot do not fit my criteria which would creating a good jpeg.

Have you looked at your image closely? Do you not see the very obvious speckling in sky and in the flat colored areas of the image?

.

Your image only prove I am correct. Beyond the tools design, it creates less ideal images


The same speckling happens on the solid fields.

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Jan 16, 2024 22:10:39   #
Miker999 wrote:
Wow! 46 more pages about one of the great photography debates. Why can't the experienced photographers here help the new photographers with Composition, Lighting, DOF, SS, Highlights, Shadows, "Working" a scene, and more.
Yes, some new photographers might ask a question that seems as if they should already know the answer BUT, try to remember the first time you picked up a camera and wondered where to begin.
So, instead of arguing among yourselves, please use your experience to help others. with the basics of a very enjoyable craft.
We were all knew to this at one time. For me it was 1981.
Wow! 46 more pages about one of the great photogra... (show quote)


I'm trying my best to inform that, there is no reason to polarise between the 2 dissimilar format with dissimilar purpose.

Use what fits the need, and what one is comfortable with.
Art, beauty & perfection in most minds is arbitrary.
No need to step on others who do not follow ones process or way of thinking.
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Jan 16, 2024 05:43:20   #
btbg wrote:
No one is blaming the tools. We are saying why settle when you can get more out of it. How hard is that to understand.

And in part yes it is the fault of jpeg. It has limits that can be overcome.

In some cases by better technique in some cases with added light such as fill flash and in some cases by shootimg in raw.


"No one is blaming the tool and in part it is the fault of jpeg" ?

Make up you mind which side you are on. You yourself is blaming jpeg.
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Jan 15, 2024 23:53:58   #
btbg wrote:
That is the whole point. This started with if you don't intend to post process is there any reason to shoot raw? The answer is yes if sharpness is critical or it is a high noise situation. 45 pages later people are still bashing the proponents of raw for stickong with tjat amswer. Shoot jpeg. No prpblem. Just don't try to claim it is the fault of the photographer when jpeg lets people down.


it is the fault of jpeg to let the photographer down?
Isn't it the photographer who choose what to do? But we blame the tools?
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Jan 15, 2024 23:51:00   #
Blenheim Orange wrote:
From the OP: "I wanted to know which was superior/inferior to the other and why."

The OP explicitly asked us to compare jpeg with raw.


With a specific requirement. No alteration/editing.

"If there is no intention of altering an image after taking it, is there any advantage in shooting RAW vs. JPG, such as greater sharpness, etc.?"

Thats the original post.
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