Salamander (?) nymph with gills (Page 2): Thee updated link is a lot better https://www.arguk.org/info-advice/id-guides/11-newt-eggs-and-larvae-identification-guide...

JH2o Loc: True north of England

Thee updated link is a lot better

https://www.arguk.org/info-advice/id-guides/11-newt-eggs-and-larvae-identification-guide

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

JH2o wrote:

Thee updated link is a lot better

https://www.arguk.org/info-advice/id-guides/11-newt-eggs-and-larvae-identification-guide

I looked at that one and started wondering if I had newts, now I am proper confused. I appreciate your help, your work with these creatures when working must have been fascinating. I bet you have a lot of good stories to tell about them.

Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI

I was hoping to have a contest on what these are.

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

JH2o wrote:

No wild Salamander's in this country Brenda

Are you making a difference between newts and salamanders?
All newts are a suborder of salamanders, but all salamanders are not newts. There are seven amphibians in , or on, the island I think of as England. Three newts, two each toads and frogs. No toads or frogs native to said island have external gills in the tadpole stage. The three salamanders do. QED. The odds that the tadpoles shown by Brenda are newts , or salamanders.
My caveat is that I have been wrong before. I am anxious for any discussion on this.
Please have some documentation, as I like to peruse this type thing.

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

Another ID point for salamanders, the front legs bevelope first, where with frogs or toads, it is the rear.
What is the main source of these tadpoles? And a timeline, when you first saw them and at what stage of development? Put bits of leafy greens in the water. This will be nibbled, but you may need protein for final development.

Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI

Ok, a newt, maybe. And at last I have a chance to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vqb19bAGI

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

EnglishBrenda wrote:

Thanks JH2o, so are you saying we are back to the idea of them being frog tadpoles. It seems this is an ID that can be confusing.

At the risk of wearing this subject thin.
There are seven introduced amphibians in England. This makes things a bit trickier.
The pet trade has spread many lower animals to foreign countries goldfish, carp, we now have English sparrows and starlings, gipsy moths and others. Our native bullfrog has spread to other countries and into areas in the US where it threatens native fauna. Pheasants, Chinese and European mantids and a few lady bugs have been a plus to our native Fauna, our Flora has suffered less well. Nature set this up, man meddles. To his ultimate detriment, in most cases.
I found a river frog, Lithobates heckscheri, (also called pond frog), in Cambridge, Maryland. Have photo documentation. They are not from here. No other record in MD that I can find. So you may have something new to you.( Where have I heard that before)?
OK. Off the soap box.
Bill

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

Mark Sturtevant wrote:

Ok, a newt, maybe. And at last I have a chance to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vqb19bAGI

I actually thought napabob would be the first to give in to this temptation.
One of the funniest of all lines.
Bill

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

Mark Sturtevant wrote:

Ok, a newt, maybe. And at last I have a chance to post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vqb19bAGI

Ha ha.

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

newtoyou wrote:

Another ID point for salamanders, the front legs bevelope first, where with frogs or toads, it is the rear.
What is the main source of these tadpoles? And a timeline, when you first saw them and at what stage of development? Put bits of leafy greens in the water. This will be nibbled, but you may need protein for final development.
Bill

Bill, the source was my small garden pond, I found them the day of my first post when they were round eggs. I understand I have to boil the lettuce or cabbage which I am doing. I have some snails in the tank to clean as well as eggs for food. I can also put in some of the midge larvae which were also in my first post on this subject but these won't be eaten if they are frog tadpoles but will if they are salamanders.

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

EnglishBrenda wrote:

Bill, the source was my small garden pond, I found them the day of my first post when they were round eggs. I understand I have to boil the lettuce or cabbage which I am doing. I have some snails in the tank to clean as well as eggs for food. I can also put in some of the midge larvae which were also in my first post on this subject but these won't be eaten if they are frog tadpoles but will if they are salamanders.

Correct about midge larva (I believe after more looking that those are Chironomidae). But no harm done if frog or toad. To NOT if they are salamanders and they probably would die.
Now, the timeline. These eggs are 'hatching'. They were probably laid about 20 or 21 Feb. This also fits with the fact that most salamanders are early breeders. And if these were frogs or toads you would have heard them in February.
Playing Sherlock Holmes a bit here😀
Bill
PS. A hydrogen peroxide bath and distilled water rinse is my normal for adding plants to an aquarium. Obviously I couldn't boil them if they were to grow. Clean hands and tools a must if working in an aquarium.
I eat the store bought greens raw, so hope they are already clean enough to feed other animals (like guests).
A final thought. Hay in water produces lots of tiny organisms. Food for the tadpoles. Use an eyedropper.

JH2o Loc: True north of England

EnglishBrenda wrote:

Thanks JH2o, so are you saying we are back to the idea of them being frog tadpoles. It seems this is an ID that can be confusing.

I should have made myself clearer Brenda the more I read the posts, I’m getting confused.

What you have photographed is an over wintering newt nymph or tadpole (some people call them that) and I’m guessing where you live it’s going to be a smooth newt, Lissotriton vulgaris, which is more common than the Palmate newt in your area, but it is possible if your pond is quite large and deep it might be a great crested newt over wintering nymph.

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

newtoyou wrote:

Correct about midge larva (I believe after more lo... (show quote)

And I might add another point for newts. They breed in vernal pools ( for most) that are free of fish. I believe many over winter as nymphs because of a two or more year tadpole stage.
So, Brenda, I believe your pond has newts. And little eats them, many have poisonous skin secretions
Bill, still

newtoyou Loc: Eastport

Mark Sturtevant wrote:

I was hoping to have a contest on what these are.

You got your wish.

EnglishBrenda Loc: Kent, England

JH2o wrote:

I should have made myself clearer Brenda the more I read the posts, I’m getting confused.

What you have photographed is an over wintering newt nymph or tadpole (some people call them that) and I’m guessing where you live it’s going to be a smooth newt, Lissotriton vulgaris, which is more common than the Palmate newt in your area, but it is possible if your pond is quite large and deep it might be a great crested newt over wintering nymph.

Thanks JH2o, yes that is clear. The pond is not very large, about 6ft X 6ft and about 3ft. at the deepest with a shallower shelf around the edge. I have a filter/fountain used in the warmer months but not now as I am concerned the eggs/tadpoles still in the pond will be pulled into the pump. I have a good supply of water plants in it, 1 goldfish and 2 shubunkins which are 4 years old and have been in the pond since babies. Life would be much simpler with pets,