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A question about purchasing ethics
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Mar 11, 2019 03:39:37   #
hpucker99 Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
GeorgeFenwick wrote:
If you visit a camera shop to evaluate options to purchase, should you then feel obligated to buy from that shop in return for their help, even if the prices are higher?


Yes, I feel it is dishonest to use the store as a tryout when I don't intend to buy from there. I am thinking about getting a full frame mirrorless (have Nikon FX and DX and Sony APS-C now) and will rent from Borrowlenses/Lens Rental this summer and see if I want to make the jump. It will cost be $300-400, yes it is a significant cost, but my conscience will be clear.

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Mar 11, 2019 07:19:58   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
When I first moved to my present location, there were 4 b&m camera stores nearby that carried low and high end gear and were peopled with helpful-and-knowledgeable sales folks. Those times are gone. While I can find much info on the web, nothing is as good as hands-on experience with multiple buying options and the help of a friendly, knowledgeable salesman. We have shot ourselves in the foot on this one, people.

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Mar 11, 2019 08:40:37   #
OwlHarbor Loc: Pacific North West USA
 
I have found when wearing slacks, shirt and tie I get much better service at most stores and treated much differently than casual wear. When I have done physical labor dressed for work treatment is less than desired. Judgement and assumptions are a part of our society. I am nearer to retirement and know that if I expect great service I will dress for the occasion.

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Mar 11, 2019 08:47:22   #
OwlHarbor Loc: Pacific North West USA
 
NH Mitch wrote:
It’s good to see that so many on this forum appreciate the position of the small business owner.
But some of you don’t have a clue about ethics.
I’m an optometrist and the owner of an optical shop. Not unlike the owners of those disappearing brick and mortar camera shops. We generally can’t compete with the big box stores or on line merchants on price.
But we do offer somethings that they can’t like expert advice and hands on opportunity. Maintaining an inventory, paying rent , insurance and staff , is not free folks.
If you come in and get prices fine, take that price and shop around.
But if you get advice or play with the gear then either you are a person of principle or you are not.
It’s good to see that so many on this forum apprec... (show quote)


Writing a response to your post I found I did not know as much about ethics as I thought or did I know there were so many flavors... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics As Paul Harvey would say have a good day!

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Mar 11, 2019 09:07:32   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
The tax you pay is what supports your state including the roads etc. So when they raise the state tax bon't bitch.

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Mar 11, 2019 09:23:09   #
OwlHarbor Loc: Pacific North West USA
 
Picture Taker wrote:
The tax you pay is what supports your state including the roads etc. So when they raise the state tax bon't bitch.


The tax issue is a complex one. Big business pays a little like great shoppers. As public institutions, we should do the same because of its taxpayer's money. The issue is what they spend money on and how they budget. The state and federal budget often run on 2-year cycles. Most find budgeting for a year is a stretch because the economy is dynamic, not static. The cost and support for special interest projects, groups adds up. Our country as a whole has determined that national defence is a higher priority other than other things and that in its self is complicated. That is a debate that the American public needs to weigh in and be clear we have gone above and beyond on defence. I am a retired US veteran who still works because like others have to be of the correct age and enough money to retire. There are excuses why governmental, state, county and cities, authorities do not use best business practice or emulate non-profits and they do so regularly. As citizens, we should demand that they do but most often we get behind our special interest or group. I am sorry that degrades our economy and country.

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Mar 11, 2019 09:23:49   #
ScooterA13
 
You are being an interested Camera Fan, they would be leery of dealing with someone who 'doesn't' ask questions in a polite manner.

You are never obligated to purchase something from 'any' store, unless you've signed a document making that promise or deal. Just always be politely engaging with your questions.

I've met some folks over the years, who are their 'own' worst enemies, as they sabotage themselves with their rude attitudes.

If you feel uneasy about any store, the next time you go there, take along a friend who can tell you later if you are adopting 'facial expressions' that are less than friendly. Many folks, are not aware they are 'wearing their attitudes' on their sleeves - so to speak.

But by the same token, you should try to adopt a friendly inquiring attitude and always thank them for their advice, be sure that they realize you DO appreciate their help. Hey, you might even bring in a small box of doughnuts, Kryspy Kremes if they are available in your area. Unless you or they are diabetic.

The easiest way to find out if they are 'involved' with a significant 'other' is to mention your significant 'other' bugging you about eating a doughnut once in a while.

Offer to share a doughnut with your NEW Best Friends in this store! I know, it is a thinly veiled attempt at trying to 'butter them up'; but at least you've proven you want them to be your new best friend in the World of Photography!

Besides, I can't think of anyone who objects to coffee & doughnuts. ;-)

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Mar 11, 2019 10:04:07   #
digit-up Loc: Flushing, Michigan
 
GeorgeFenwick wrote:
If you visit a camera shop to evaluate options to purchase, should you then feel obligated to buy from that shop in return for their help, even if the prices are higher?


I buy all things Pentax and FUJI (these days) and have bought all my digital cameras, sight unseen, but heavily reviewed. I have yet to find a bricks & boards shop, anywhere near me that sells those brands. I have a number of Pentax DSLR, and a great Fuji mirror-less camera. Adorama and B&H are DEALERS for those brands and I continue to go on line orCALL them for everything, Pentax & fuji that I want, need, and LOVE. They support the brands I want and I thank them for it. Also; they have been just great to deal with over the years. If I wanted inferior brands, I would just go to sams, walmart & Best Buy!! They (those cameras)are ubiquitouos & omnipresent in those LOCAL stores. Let’s get everyone riled-up....I was just kidding, kinda!! I still buy a lot of the “peripheral stuff at the local shops. RJM

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Mar 11, 2019 10:12:27   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
Picture Taker wrote:
The tax you pay is what supports your state including the roads etc. So when they raise the state tax bon't bitch.


Oh you poor thing, bless your heart.

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Mar 11, 2019 10:14:30   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
GeorgeFenwick wrote:
If you visit a camera shop to evaluate options to purchase, should you then feel obligated to buy from that shop in return for their help, even if the prices are higher?


You should feel obligated to negotiate with them honestly. Otherwise you are being dishonest.

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Mar 11, 2019 10:36:11   #
digit-up Loc: Flushing, Michigan
 
B
swartfort wrote:
So by that line of reasoning, people who are rich lack ethics? How does one define rich? Is it a sliding scale? Do moderately rich people have moderately more ethics while poor people are the most ethical?

Do people who buy online to avoid sales tax have more ethics? Do they use less state services? Are they not, by definition consuming state provided services without paying for them? Is that the definition of ethical?

Sounds like a thought from someone who has a jealous view of those who might be perceived as having more wealth.

No response to this post needed as there is no correct answer. I just thought I throw in some questions and maybe give some pause....
So by that line of reasoning, people who are rich ... (show quote)


Eat the rich! Wow!! So many people hate the rich, until THEY become(If ever( wealthy themselves. I often wondered If I was wealthy enough to be considered RICH, and there-fore HATED, since my income was substantial and quite above average, I actually WORRIED-ABOUT-IT. But I earned my own way, never stoled from anyone, and I’m a very nice guy, AND I’ve lost my GUILT about being well-off. Screw the dim, jealous people, that would imply that I’m the enemy.....because I stayed in school, served my country in the Navy , went to college, did not impregnate anyone out of wed-lock, never was arrested or imprisoned, paid all my taxes, never faulted on loans, and never thought that credit card companies were hostile and nasty, just because they expected me to pay what I owed. I never believed the government was terrible, hence I should not pay my taxes. I never needed government assistance (though sometimes it fills some folks temporary needs) I never felt INTITLED to anything what-so-ever, just because I was born in America. I also NEVER hated big business or corporations and factories as nasty....heck their wealth paid our wages. ....EAT the RICH,???#*++ Kill the golden goose.????#*++ Angry jealous morons, if you ask me.. I’m ethical, as ethical as anyone I know, and I’m wealthy, and not GUILTY...BYE-THE-WAY, B&H IS A bricks & boards business too!!

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Mar 11, 2019 10:55:02   #
henryp Loc: New York, NY
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Not for everything. I bought something from B&H in January and the order was not even cancellable let alone return.

Some special order items cannot be cancelled or returned. There's a notation on the information page for those items saying, "This item is noncancelable and nonreturnable."

I'd be happy to look into your situation but I'll need the original B&H order number to do so.

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Mar 11, 2019 10:56:57   #
BebuLamar
 
henryp wrote:
Some special order items cannot be cancelled or returned. There's a notation on the information page for those items saying, "This item is noncancelable and nonreturnable."

I'd be happy to look into your situation but I'll need the original B&H order number to do so.


Oh don't worry about it! I knew the term before I ordered it and I didn't want to return. By the way B&H gave me the best deal for that item. I just want to say that not all items are returnable.
It was a guitar and I would have bought it locally but I went to several local shops and none had one for me to try. If they did I would buy from them instead of B&H. To me the most valuable thing with local store is that I can see and handle the merchandise before making the buying decision. I don't need any other help more than an online store like B&H can do.

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Mar 11, 2019 11:30:30   #
SS319
 
GeorgeFenwick wrote:
If you visit a camera shop to evaluate options to purchase, should you then feel obligated to buy from that shop in return for their help, even if the prices are higher?


Example: Canon EOSR

Canon $2299
B&H $2299
KEH $2299
Amazon $2299
Best Buy $2299
Normans $2299
(Local Store In Kalamazoo/Grand Rapids, Mark's in GR, Riley in Holland and The Camera Shop in Muskegon will meet this price)

Now, if you just throw away all that warrantee paperwork , then you can drop the price by $300

There is this misconception that B&H and Amazon and other online are cheaper, and it is not true. There is no local market any longer, we live in a national/global market, and the prices we pay reflect the market influences.

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Mar 11, 2019 11:38:09   #
henryp Loc: New York, NY
 
When a string of competing retailers all have the same price it's either MAP (minimum advertised price) restrictions or a unilateral price (minimum selling price) restriction. Both are imposed n authorized retailers by the US distributor, Canon USA in this case. If the former, the retailer has leeway to quote a lower selling price. If the latter, there is no lower possible price.

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