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Full Frame versus APS-C digital sensors
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Jan 26, 2019 19:58:49   #
Bipod
 
burkphoto wrote:
Size...

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2016/01/camera-sensor-size.html

Each of the larger formats from Micro 4/3 to medium format digital has a role to play in the photographic universe. None is intrinsically better at everything than another one. They, and all the cameras that use them, each have their niche markets.

Life is full of little trade-offs. You learn to maximize what you need and minimize what you don't. Sometimes, less is more. Sometimes, more is more. Sometimes, less is less...

The sweet spot for price vs performance is often APS-C, simply because it's the best-selling category.

The sweet spot for portability with decent performance is Micro 4/3, because a SYSTEM of body and several lenses saves 2/3 to 3/4 the weight over a full frame system. But you give up two stops of ISO in dim light...

The sweet spot for image technical quality is full frame. The lenses suck in twice as much light as APS-C, and four times as much light as Micro 4/3. So noise is less intrusive at high ISOs. But full frame gear can cost a LOT more than APS-C or Micro 4/3. And it can weigh a lot more, and take up more space.

You have to take a look at what YOU photograph, or want to photograph, and then find the best compromise for that subject matter that also meets your budget constraints.
Size... br br https://theonlinephotographer.type... (show quote)

I totally agree: there is no "one size fits all" -- no single format can meet everyone's needs.

What the linked article glosses over is that "full-frame" is in fact minature format. And the
largest single-sensor digital cameras are in fact medium format, not "full frame".

Yes, a Pekingese is larger than a chihuahua, but that doesn't make it a "full sized" dog.
If suddenly these "fashion accessory" pooches are what consumers want -- and celebrities are
seen carrying them around -- fine. But that doesn't change what they are: minatures dogs.
They don't make good police dogs or sled dogs.

And FF is miniature format -- all corporate propaganda and advertising notwithstanding.

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Jan 26, 2019 19:59:56   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
But only about 40 posts.


Goofy....but just how NEW can he be to photography?

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Jan 26, 2019 20:57:37   #
TonyBot
 
Like many others here, I have both FF (35mm size) and "crop" sensor cameras. With the advances in sensor technology and processing engines, I can get excellent 24x36s out of an APSc, and a really good 16x20 out of a highly cropped APSc image. (Do I have a preference? Yup - the FF viewfinder is soooo much nicer.) Technique makes a great difference. Good glass certainly helps, but even the "kit" lenses are much better than ever. Both are capable of taking good, even great, pictures. Let your wallet decide and just start shooting!

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Jan 26, 2019 21:20:14   #
Bernu
 
I use the Canon M6 camera, which is a APS-C. I have images enlarged to 16 x 20 inches and they are tack sharp with very smooth tonality. Highly recommended camera. With an adapter ring you can use Canon full frame lenses on the M6 body. Recently picked up a mint Canon 300mm EF lens. Nice combination...

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Jan 26, 2019 22:03:39   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Bipod wrote:
I totally agree: there is no "one size fits all" -- no single format can meet everyone's needs.

What the linked article glosses over is that "full-frame" is in fact minature format. And the
largest single-sensor digital cameras are in fact medium format, not "full frame".

Yes, a Pekingese is larger than a chihuahua, but that doesn't make it a "full sized" dog.
If suddenly these "fashion accessory" pooches are what consumers want -- and celebrities are
seen carrying them around -- fine. But that doesn't change what they are: minatures dogs.
They don't make good police dogs or sled dogs.

And FF is miniature format -- all corporate propaganda and advertising notwithstanding.
I totally agree: there is no "one size fits a... (show quote)


My little "Fashion accessory" will leap up and grab your nads for that!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

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Jan 26, 2019 23:22:02   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
TonyBot wrote:
Like many others here, I have both FF (35mm size) and "crop" sensor cameras. With the advances in sensor technology and processing engines, I can get excellent 24x36s out of an APSc, and a really good 16x20 out of a highly cropped APSc image.


I’ve made many 16x20 prints from APS format images. To me, the FF benefits are mostly in low light images.

Andy

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Jan 27, 2019 09:42:26   #
Pistnbroke Loc: UK
 
Until a while ago we used DX (D7100) and D810 FX at weddings and you could not tell the difference in the finished selection of prints

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Jan 27, 2019 10:53:29   #
potica69
 
gopher22 wrote:
I am relatively new to digital photography beyond "Point and Shoot" and am looking to buy something modern and more versatile. Perhaps one of the members would care to explain the difference between Full Frame versus APS-C, as in Full Frame sensor and Crop sensor.

This may answer your question right from the start:

"For email, social site use, Web display, and even slide shows (we don't use slide projectors any more, we use HD video outputs), you're not going to see a difference between DX and FX, so buy what you can afford. Hmm. That would raise DX sales and lower FX sales if Nikon made that marketing message, and the profit margins on FX are higher, so any guesses as to why they don't trumpet this message? ;~)"

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2013-news/april-2013-nikon-newsviews/dx-versus-fx-again.html

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Jan 27, 2019 11:12:32   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
potica69 wrote:
This may answer your question right from the start:

"For email, social site use, Web display, and even slide shows (we don't use slide projectors any more, we use HD video outputs), you're not going to see a difference between DX and FX, so buy what you can afford. Hmm. That would raise DX sales and lower FX sales if Nikon made that marketing message, and the profit margins on FX are higher, so any guesses as to why they don't trumpet this message? ;~)"

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikon-2013-news/april-2013-nikon-newsviews/dx-versus-fx-again.html
This may answer your question right from the start... (show quote)


Really? Profit margins on the FX camera's are higher than on DX bodies. Please give me some examples of this. I am assuming you are a Nikon Authorized Dealer and have this information on hand. Please share.

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Jan 27, 2019 11:58:13   #
E4Mafia Loc: Knoxville, TN
 
Cropped senors have both an advantage and disadvantages compared to ff sensors.
Cropped vs. Ff
1. Weight less
2. Cost less
3. More zoom range
4. Less wide angle range (can be costly)
5. Cropped sensor glass can be used on ff sensor bodies but not vice versa
6. Less foot print for light to be recieved

The biggest downfalls with cropped sensor bodies is:
1. If you want 35mm images then youll need to purchase a 20mm lense (20×1.6=32mm) or 24mm lense (24×1.6=38mm) to get with in range of a 35mm. But this is true with ALL cropped sensor glass. At 300mm you get 480mm FOR FREE. Great for wildlife and sports shots. Try buying glass at that length and youll go broke.
When your ready to move up to ff sensor bodies, take the lense with you but you lose the advantage you had before.

2. When you tire of losing all that light and want exactly what you need, say wide angle, then youll be happy you went ff. Bc a 35mm prime glass for cropped sensored bodies roughly cost less than $150usd. But its really 45mm bc its cropped. So now you gotta buy a 20mm glass to get close to 35mm and now that cost roughly $750usd.

Im not persuading against aps-c cameras because their great for certain uses, but lack greatly at others.
It all depends on your needs.

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Jan 27, 2019 12:07:50   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
billnikon wrote:
On crop disadvantages. My D500 at 6400 and 12000 ISO is extremely good and has surprisingly low noise.


The gap has been closing in that regard due to better sensor design and DSP noise processing in camera....of course it's still a gap (and FF sensors have advanced similarly) but a smaller one than used to be 10 years ago (hence the bad rep for crop sensors). The D7200 also has excellent noise control for a DX camera. For a photographer who shoots almost any genre (or wants that ultimate flexibility) having both types in their arsenal will provide a best of all worlds scenario. FF prices have come down to a reasonable level in the last 5 years or so too....I think we will see some serious price competition in the FF mirrorless arena this year, and as well DSLR prices will be pushed down too as demand drops.

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Jan 27, 2019 12:39:31   #
Pistnbroke Loc: UK
 
We do find for the darker venues ie 13th century churches that the FX has the edge

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Jan 27, 2019 12:43:01   #
1963mca
 
To me, my full frame camera is my RB-67 Pro S 6cm x 7cm camera (still in use). In this context my 35mm camera is much smaller in sensor/film format.

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Jan 27, 2019 12:51:30   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Pistnbroke wrote:
We do find for the darker venues ie 13th century churches that the FX has the edge


That may also be backed up in low light ISO DX0 Marks. It rates the top 7 nikon camera's. The only DX camera, the D500 comes in last following the D5, D4s, Df, D850, D750, and D810. In that order.

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Jan 27, 2019 12:57:18   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
AndyH wrote:
I’ve made many 16x20 prints from APS format images. To me, the FF benefits are mostly in low light images.

Andy


Is that it? I’ve got 24 x 36 images (and larger) from my m4/3 gear.

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