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How much more research and development will go into f mount?
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Jan 5, 2019 04:32:54   #
Bipod
 
Joelwexler wrote:
You're saying my Nikon lenses won't mount on the Nikon Z7 without a converter?

Nope. Nikon now has two lens mounts:
F-mount: flange-to-frame distance 46.5 mm
Z-mount: flange-to-frame distance : 16 mm

Nikon makes an FTZ Lens Adapter.
It does not need a optic, since 16 < 46.5
However:
* Twice as many electrical contacts
* Two bayonet mounts -- looser tolerances
* List price: $249.95.

You probably bought Nikon cameras and lenses so that this wouln't happen to you.
Too bad.

And of course, Nikon, Canon, Sony have all introduced new, incompatible
mirroless lens mounts. There could have been an industry standard, but then
lenses from different manufactures could compete head on for quality can price.
Can't have that.

Canon EF-M FFD is 18 mm, Fujifilm X is 17.7 mm. That 0.3 mm is extremely
important: it insures incompatibility.

Well, the good news is tht Nikon hasn't discontinued its DSLRs or F-mount lenes---yet.
But Sony has already discontinued all but one of its FF A-mount DSLRs.

You're probalby wondering what the Z7 can do that the D850 can't do.
So is everyone else (except the fanboys who always cheer for their team).

But mirrorless is cheaper to manufacture -- althought he savings isn't being
passed along to customers. In Nikon's defense: there wasn't much else it could
do given behemouth Sony's marketing blitz, and consumer gullibility.

All cameras are consumer cameras now, except for Leica, Hassalblad, Miyama.

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Jan 5, 2019 07:30:45   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.


Development follows the money. The near future will tell.

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Jan 5, 2019 17:50:13   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.


Many answers here.
For me as an outside observer and not in the Camera making or selling industry I see the DSLR being gone fairly quickly. There will likely be one more round of new DSLRs with no new lenses or just a couple perhaps. The F mount is way past the expired date by about 30 years and just can't be cobbled any longer and stay competitive. Thus the development of the Z mount. Very shortly the next round of serious photographers will look at the DSLR as interesting and that is about it. Sony has shown this and with Canon and Nikon seriously embracing pro level mirrorless cameras and lenses it likely won't take long to convert and why waste resources on a dead end. I think I will always deep down inside prefer the optical viewfinder but am learning very slowly to embrace the TV for a viewfinder as it has substantially improved in the last year.

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Jan 6, 2019 16:40:53   #
Bipod
 
larryepage wrote:
I do understand that there is a real audible benefit of vacuum tube amps. And I think there is a real reason for it, even though it sort of flies in the face of Ohm's law. But my belief is that vacuum tubes, which are voltage-based devices are just more suited to audio signals than transistors, which are current-based devices. And in the case of double-sided (push-pull or push-push) solid state amps, there's that nasty business of the barrier voltage in the zero crossing area. Of course, the other side of the problem was building (and later lifting) output transformers with enough iron in the cores to efficiently couple the low frequencies.
I do understand that there is a real audible benef... (show quote)

And of course, tube amps are preferred for guitar amps, because the right tube circuit
can provide soft-clipping that (together with the output transformer) produces nice
harmonic distortion.

An electric guitar -- particularly a solid body-- doesn't sound like much by itself.
It relies on the amp (and sometimes effects pedals) for most of its tone.

Some guitarists get religious about not wanting any solid-state components in their
tube amp, which is silly. Nobody in their right mind wants a power supply with a
rectifier tube. And an op-amp IC on the inputs to a tube amp is a good idea, to provide
a stiff input and isolation.

The general rule of thumb for impedence coupling is 10:1 -- e.g, if you have 10K
ohm output imepdance, the amp input must have 100,000K input impedance. Guitar
pickups are in the 6k to 10k range, but some wiring connect two pickups in parallell.
And the 500k volume pot is in series with the pickup(s).

Some day electric guitars will go to active pickups, but not until somebody figures
out how to build one without a battery in the guitar.

The tie-in to photography is this: One has to be open to change, but not hop on every
bandwagon that comes along---and not assume that newer is always better. A
1959 - 1962 Fender Stratocaster is is worth about $40,000 to $75,000 depending on
condition. People buy them to play them. And no, it isn't digital.

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Jan 6, 2019 18:50:17   #
Bipod
 
Architect1776 wrote:

The F mount is way past the expired date by about 30 years and just can't be cobbled any longer and stay competitive.

What's wrong with the F-mount, specifically?

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Jan 7, 2019 08:32:43   #
sr71 Loc: In Col. Juan Seguin Land
 
Bipod wrote:
What's wrong with the F-mount, specifically?


Absolutely nothing!

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Jan 7, 2019 08:47:02   #
bikertut Loc: Kingsville, MO
 
Bipod:
“The tie-in to photography is this: One has to be open to change, but not hop on every bandwagon that comes along---and not assume that newer is always better.”

Example: Sony Betamax vs VHS. Better does not always win. Marketing does.

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Jan 9, 2019 01:21:21   #
DJCard Loc: Northern Kentucky
 
My McIntosh C-30 pre-amp and McIntosh CD player are decades old but play my heavy-metal to chamber music beautifully. I still worry that the masses’ MP3-file music is going to take over (which to my ears is horrible), but it hasn’t. My D750 and D850 with Nikon glass can take beautiful photos, and I still worry the smart-phone camera will take over, but it it hasn’t. If albums and turntables and tube amps are still being bought, sold and used by audiophiles, then I hope film, DSLR and other formats will be kept alive by various photophiles(?) for many decades.

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Jan 10, 2019 12:55:07   #
scsdesphotography Loc: Southeastern Michigan
 
TriX wrote:
I agree with you concerning the psychoacoustics of audio perception. In fact, if you go the site I referenced, I’ve said exactly the same things about dynamic range, loudspeaker efficiency and power requirements. That’s why I believe in efficient loudspeakers and amps with plenty of reserve power. That’s why I don’t endorse low power SET amps unless you’re driving headphones. I also generally agree with your comments on distortion - certain types of distortion are more audiable than others. My tube type amps are rated at full power at 1% THD/IM - a figure that is terrible compared to the best solid state amps (but they “sound” better.).

Like you, when I played LPs and cassettes, I unapologetically used extensive signal processing to overcome the deficiencies of the media. I used a dbx 3BX expander (to my knowledge, the best expander ever made) to increase dynamic range. I used a Carver “sonic hologram generator” to increase channel separation and broaden the soundstage. To combat noise, I was scrupulous in keeping my LPs pristine - a cleaning machine, Polonium based anti static brush, and even a Burwen pop and click remover on occasion. And when I transferred LPs to cassette to minimize wear on the LPs, only using them for critical listening and cassettes for casual use, a used dbx (2:1 compression) on the cassettes.

I don’t do any of that any more. I sold all the signal processing paraphernalia and listen to CDs, which I can play any number of times without degradation, and they are DEAD QUIET - I can place my ear in the speaker cone with the amp gain wide open, and it is completely silent. The system end-to-end S/N is close to 90 dB, the frequency response is dead flat and the channel separation is probably close to 60db - the result is an ultra-wide soundstage.

Regarding room equalization, I used to do that also, but I don’t anymore. Why? Because once you get past the basics of a fairly linear mid and high frequency response by perhaps changing the listening room furnishings or speaker placement, you are left with the issue of standing waves at bass frequencies, and no amount of equalization can address that. I build loudspeakers at are flat within 3db from 20Hz to 20KHz, tested in an anechoic environment with the best Bruel and Kjaer Mike you can buy. What I can do is change my seating position within the listening room, which can certainly make a difference in perceived bass. In short, straight from the CD player to the amp. No preamp, just a passive remote controlled level control for loudness.

Now, thanks for the interesting discussion, and let’s get back to the OP’s original topic!
I agree with you concerning the psychoacoustics of... (show quote)


OMG Trix, I know I said I would stop, but wow! I have either owned or are familiar with every piece of sound modifying equipment that you mentioned. A friend of mine owned the Burwen, and used judicially it worked really well. I still use my dbx compander to enhance the dynamic range of vinyl and tapes. My speakers are equalized to match my room characteristics and my listening position is just inside the standing wave intersect. But, because, the position of where that standing wave would be at maximum, my room is open to a stairway and to two other side rooms, it really doesn't develop the amplitude that it would in a standard rectangular room. Okay, thanks for the discussion, now I'm done!

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Jan 10, 2019 15:56:52   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
scsdesphotography wrote:
OMG Trix, I know I said I would stop, but wow! I have either owned or are familiar with every piece of sound modifying equipment that you mentioned. A friend of mine owned the Burwen, and used judicially it worked really well. I still use my dbx compander to enhance the dynamic range of vinyl and tapes. My speakers are equalized to match my room characteristics and my listening position is just inside the standing wave intersect. But, because, the position of where that standing wave would be at maximum, my room is open to a stairway and to two other side rooms, it really doesn't develop the amplitude that it would in a standard rectangular room. Okay, thanks for the discussion, now I'm done!
OMG Trix, I know I said I would stop, but wow! I h... (show quote)


Thanks. I kept one 3BX expander and a dbx 224 encoder/decoder for those occasions where I listen to (dbx encoded) cassettes copied from LPs, and I have found one really good use for the Carver. With headphone listening, it moves the soundstage in front of the listener, rather than in the middle of the head, which I find more pleasant. I don’t listen to headphones much. I have a pair of the original Koss electrostatics which are heavy and uncomfortably tight, but the come with an individuals tested frequency response curve printout for each earphone, and they are remarkable transducers (from the 60s) that are dead flat across the audiable range. Too bad they are not more comfortable. The Burwen (which was also sold under the KLH label) as a TNE 7000 could do remarkable things with large defects, such as a scratch, but not a lot of help with low-level noise. It would detect a very fast transient, such as a scratch, and mute that channel, filling in the missing space from content before or after the scratch. You can actually run a knife across an LP, and the Burwen will make the deep scratch almost inaudiable. Obviously, audiophiles don’t intentionally subject their prized possessions to such abuse, but for a scratched vintage LP, they’re useful at some expense of intentional fast transients such as percussion.

Cheers,
Chris

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Jan 10, 2019 17:50:30   #
karno Loc: Chico ,California
 
bikertut wrote:
Bipod:
“The tie-in to photography is this: One has to be open to change, but not hop on every bandwagon that comes along---and not assume that newer is always better.”

Example: Sony Betamax vs VHS. Better does not always win. Marketing does.

Newer is only better if it improves your end result or makes it easier to get to the result you want. If this is the case then an upgrade or downgrade may be worth it.

Reply
 
 
Jan 11, 2019 12:13:53   #
scsdesphotography Loc: Southeastern Michigan
 
TriX wrote:
Thanks. I kept one 3BX expander and a dbx 224 encoder/decoder for those occasions where I listen to (dbx encoded) cassettes copied from LPs, and I have found one really good use for the Carver. With headphone listening, it moves the soundstage in front of the listener, rather than in the middle of the head, which I find more pleasant. I don’t listen to headphones much. I have a pair of the original Koss electrostatics which are heavy and uncomfortably tight, but the come with an individuals tested frequency response curve printout for each earphone, and they are remarkable transducers (from the 60s) that are dead flat across the audiable range. Too bad they are not more comfortable. The Burwen (which was also sold under the KLH label) as a TNE 7000 could do remarkable things with large defects, such as a scratch, but not a lot of help with low-level noise. It would detect a very fast transient, such as a scratch, and mute that channel, filling in the missing space from content before or after the scratch. You can actually run a knife across an LP, and the Burwen will make the deep scratch almost inaudiable. Obviously, audiophiles don’t intentionally subject their prized possessions to such abuse, but for a scratched vintage LP, they’re useful at some expense of intentional fast transients such as percussion.

Cheers,
Chris
Thanks. I kept one 3BX expander and a dbx 224 enco... (show quote)



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