IDguy Loc: Idaho

Most companies are honest and will admit their mistake. At least that is my experience over 70 years.

And yes, there are a few jerks. They are the ones you hear about. I’ve run into very few.

Bipod

A bad breaker is a good suggestion.

But first, try to completely characterize the symptom. What do you observe?

Also, try to find a wiring diagram for make/model of of submersible pump.
There are 2-wire pumps (2 or 3 wires down hole) and 3-wire pumps (3, 4 or 5
wires down hole).

The next step is to determine whether the problem is down the hole or
on the surface. Then you know who to call!

So the well-head is the crucial place to check:

1. Put an ear to the casing and listen while someone turns on the pump for
20 seconds. You should be able to hear if the pump is spinning.

2. If not, check one of the hot wires (L1 or L2) going down the hole
with a clamp-on ammeter, and have someone turn the pump on for
20 seconds. You should see a current.

3. If not, check acrosss L1 and L2 for 250 VAC. If not, you have an AC
electrical problem above ground.

Normally pumps are placed far enough from the bottom of the well
so that no sand or silt gets into the intake. On a submersible, the intake
is located about half way up the pump--above the motor.

When the water level drops, more water is drawn from the bottom of the
whole, but generally not enough to stir up muck. Also, there is an
inlet strainer around the center of the pump.

paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah

Forgive my ignorance but is that a splice or an attachment.
My splice was done in the ground, somewhere on a hundred foot run in the middle.
But I can see your point but I am not sure the other response are not like mine. It is not stated.
Personally I agree with Leon S. and that is why I did it. If you do not use electrical conduit use PVC like I did. OK it may not be code but I still feel it is better than a free line.
By the way mine was through the lawn and thru tree roots.
Suggestion detach the line from the pump (sprinkler clock) and use a voltmeter to see if you are getting power.

waldron7 Loc: State of Confusion

Cistern

Bipod

You can get a splice kit for underground splices. They sell them Home Depot.

They use a screw connector and very heavy heat-shrink tubing.
They are waterproof and suitable for direcdt burial. No other junction is.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Underground-UF-Splice-Kit-HST-1300/301734936

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

We have water. After many failed attempts, the plumber (who kept saying that he used to be an electrician) found what he thinks was the problem - a broken ground wire from the house to the well. He ran a cable from the top of the well, across the front of the house, and in through the front door to the pressure switch. Naturally, we can't close the front door. Since we have no basement, I'm going to dig a channel around the back of the house and run the cable into the utility room. To play it safe - and legal - I'll hire an electrician to make the final connections. Fortunately, it's been warm lately - 30s - 40s - so cold air isn't pouring in through the front door. I figure I'll seal the gaps somehow and use the side door. I'll have to start digging before the ground freezes again.

It is nice to have water, though, even with a wire running in through the front door.

Leon S Loc: Minnesota

Leon S Loc: Minnesota

Hi Jerry
Its even more important now to use conduit to protect the wire. Since your doing a surface bury, any amount of soil compacting can cause the wire to stretch and either brake or the copper to stretch. Stretching of the copper will cause hot spots in the narrowed parts of the wire. Without using conduit, mice, gophers, or other varmints will enjoy chewing on the wire covering. This causes at the least low level voltage drain, which you pay for on your electric bill. Worst case especially when the ground is saturated with water, electrical shock to your family and friends. Use a large enough size conduit to make pulling the stiff 20amp uf cable through. It should be large enough to allow a foot of cable to be feed back into the conduit in like a S curve. This will give the run some length to stretch in case of ground settling or heavy equipment running over the line.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Glad you have water Jerry. So is the net-net that the burried cable was open on the neutral side or the ground? (there’s a difference). And if that was the cause, was the breaker that kept tripping a ground fault type breaker? (An open neutral or ground wire shouldn’t cause the breaker to trip unless it was a ground fault breaker and there was a current path from the open wire to ground. Either way, does that mean that the original diagnosis was bad and you really didn’t need a pump? And if that’s the case, who is responsible for the cost of the unneeded pump and the installation? Did the pump need replacing anyway due to age, or was it the original failure and either the open wire was coincidental or caused by a faulty installation? Too many unanswered questions and inquiring minds want to know.

Now as to burying the replacement cable. The code allows direct burial of UF wire which must be at least 24” deep and the fill dirt must be rock free. I like to add yellow marking tape about a foot above the cable when backfilling, so if someone unknowingly digs over the cable, they hopefully hit the warning tape before the get as far as the cable. BUT, while direct burial is certainly legal, I prefer to run underground cable in conduit as well (for all the reasons mentioned above). Plastic electrical conduit is cheap and good physical protection. If in conduit, the code requires the conduit to be buried at least 18” deep, and I like to use a size large enough that pulling the wire doesn’t take unreasonable force. If it’s a very long run, cable pulling lubricant may be a help.

Let us know how this all turns out...

no nameJoe

Some time breakers with time and age will begin to trip at less than the amperage the they are rated at run a cable rated for the rating of your pump and run it if it trips change the breaker before you spend more money buy a cheap clamp on ammeter and check the run amps

Bipod

Great to hear, Jerry! Must be a huge relief to know the problem isn't in the well.

The ground wire is very important for lightening protection of your pump. If lightening
strikes the ground nearby, a huge potential can exist for a short time between the ground
rod on your house and the well. You want the ground wire to take the hit, not the pump.

Plastic conduit is inexpensive and easy to put together. If you decide to go with conduit,
be sure to use a larger diameter than strictly necessary, to make it easier to pull the
cable or to replace it (or even pull an additional wire, should the occasion arise)..
Conduit is cheap, digging trenches is expensive.

Also, you didn't say what sort of structure is at your well head:
* Well house,
* Buried vault, or
* Buried pitless adaptor.?

If you go with a conduit, you'll need access to both ends in order to pull the cable (or to
replace it or pull an additional wire in the future). Make access easy and you'll be glad
you did later. But remember that the pipe coming from the pump must not freeze.

The problem with shallow burial is that it tends to get dug up. In cold climates a conduit
or cable can work its way out of the ground because of frost heave. And where heavy
rains are common, conduits can float out of the ground (like an empty swimming pool).
I don't recommend shallow burial. At keast 2 feet down -- or whatever code requires.

IMPORTANT: For looking up the code requirement for wire gauge, the length of the run
isn't the length of the trench. It's the length of the trenchplus the S curves....plus wiring
in the house...plus 200 ft! The run is from service box (to switch) to pump.

And if code requires a certain gauge, it's a good idea to go one gauge heavier (even if they
didn't when they put down the well). Your pump will have more power and you'll waste
less energy heating the ground. Code is only the minimum requirements. Heavier
wire is more expensive and harder to handle, but anything you can do to reduce the voltage
drop between the service box and the pump is a well worth it.

If you decide to go for direct burial, select a cable that is rated for direct burial.
It's customary to "snake" is an slight 'S' shape when laying cable in a trench to allow it
to stretch. Also, you can't back-fill wth rocks on top the cable-- better to start with gravel
or sift I've had 300 ft of cable direct buried to my well for 40 years -- working fine.
But it's down 36 inches and we backfilled very, very carefully.

Five years ago I buided a 100ft cable directly from the generator to the well, and put a
mag contactor at the well head. So the 250 AC no longer has to make the long round
trip from gen to house to well. The pressure swtich is now 125 VAC and only
about 1/2 amp -- it trips the contractor.

Plan ahead and exceed code requirements and you'll be in good shape.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Splices Typically have to accessable.....Buried in the ground is not accessable, in a pull box is. I was talking about pumps.....sorry about the confusion.

Henry Wattenbarger

Get an AC current probe & measure the current to the motor. Current requirements are listed on the motor's ID plate. If current is within spec (about 6 to 7 amps per HP) the pump is at fault. If the current is below spec of near zero you have a wiring problem---Let me know---Henry

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Excellent points, especially using a size larger than minimum wire to minimize voltage drop on long runs.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Agreed, but the current / HP depends on whether the pump is 120 or 240 VAC. As you said just check the specs for the pump. An amprobe is a very useful tool, although not especially cheap. Just remember that it must go around ONE conductor ONLY, not the entire romex! We had a computer tech make that mistake on a large computer installation, and the engineers at corporate couldn’t understand how he got those small, erratic readings until I asked how he was making the measurement.