Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
How much more research and development will go into f mount?
Page <prev 2 of 6 next> last>>
Jan 2, 2019 23:42:50   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.


I think a better question to ask is how long will Nikon design and build new dslrs? No mirror, no pentaprism, no AF sensor, so the component cost should be less No moving parts and less optical parts to align so they should be less expensive to assemble and they should last forever. I'm thinking around 3 years and it will be virtually all mirrorless.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 00:00:18   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
larryepage wrote:
...Of course, the other side of the problem was building (and later lifting) output transformers with enough iron in the cores to efficiently couple the low frequencies.


Notice how large the output transformers are on my amps. Btw you mentioned McIntosh amps. I read his original patents many times. The key with tube amps is how much (if any) and how to apply negative feedback. McIntosh pioneered a cathode winding on the output transformer for that purpose, and his amps have a very specific “sound” due to that.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 00:37:57   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
larryepage wrote:
I do understand that there is a real audible benefit of vacuum tube amps. And I think there is a real reason for it, even though it sort of flies in the face of Ohm's law. But my belief is that vacuum tubes, which are voltage-based devices are just more suited to audio signals than transistors, which are current-based devices. And in the case of double-sided (push-pull or push-push) solid state amps, there's that nasty business of the barrier voltage in the zero crossing area. Of course, the other side of the problem was building (and later lifting) output transformers with enough iron in the cores to efficiently couple the low frequencies.
I do understand that there is a real audible benef... (show quote)


I'm old enough to have designed with vacuum tubes then transitioned to transistors and other solid state components. Believe me, I don't miss the heavy high voltage transformers. Vacuum tubes are still used in guitar amplifiers (I love my VOX guitar amp) because of the very unique types of distortion they can produce when over driven. Can't get anything like it from transistors. Early on, push pull transistor amplifiers were needed because of the power limitations of early power transistors. One of the fun things I did was to design a 500W peak, 230 continuous watt class A stereo amplifier when better power transistors became available. The heat sinks were massive and I used a cooling fan. Great specs, sounded great. I think I still may have it in my junk pile. BTW, the quality of a digital recording (like on CDs) is related to the sampling rate. I believe CDs used 44.1ksamples/sec or about twice human hearing. Really need to get it to at least 4x human hearing at 14 bits. 8x is better. Much higher than that is overkill and you'll start to have problems finding systems, especially speakers that can accurately reproduce it. Also need young ears in an acoustic chamber to hear the differences.

Reply
 
 
Jan 3, 2019 06:22:13   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.


I am 70, I am not going to even concern myself with it. Many folks are using both, each has their advantages, each has their drawbacks. In the hands of a good photographer, it doesn't really matter.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 06:41:43   #
Shutterbug57
 
Steve Perry wrote:
IMO it depends how quickly mirrorless is adopted by the masses. Keep in mind that Nikon launched the 500PF (F-Mount Lens) the same day they launched the mirrorless cameras. While there's no doubt mirrorless will be the platform of the future, how quickly people adopt that future will ultimately decide how long Nikon will continue to make new F-mount glass. I doubt even Nikon knows for sure.


I completely agree. Having both a Nikon D500 & Fuji X-T2, I can see how the masses will flock to mirrorless. Getting great quality images has never been easier. Putting the histogram in the EVF with outstanding jpg film simulations that can be shared almost instantly on social media will drive mirrorless to the front. Both the D500 & X-T2 can produce high quality 13x19 prints (as big as my printer goes), but the X-T2 can get there with less work, largely because of the WYSIWYG EVF.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 06:52:13   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.


We're in a transition period right now - there will still be some F-mount lenses produced by Nikon and third parties probably for the next few years...even when Nikon declares the F mount officially "dead" there will be a huge aftermarket of used lenses (not to mention unsold stock of new equipment)...there will be plenty of time to transition over to the Z system with the help of the FTZ adapter. Lenses and digital bodies will continue to work fine!

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 07:00:53   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
"...I can read the writing on the wall." You gotta admit, the venerable F-mount has had a great run. And, yes, Nikon F-mount cameras are still being developed. And, yes, for years Nikon has had two distinct lens systems going for DX and FX cameras. And, yes, all of this has made a flock-of-money for Nikon. Business is business, Nikon will continue with the F-mount only as long as doing so will still bring in the dough. I'm think that will be til long after I'm gone.

Reply
 
 
Jan 3, 2019 07:07:53   #
ggenova64
 
The world is going to mirrorless cameras according to Will Crocket years ago! Mirrorless is the way! But yet film is making a big come back!

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 07:20:19   #
alfeng Loc: Out where the West commences ...
 
karno wrote:
Is this going to be the downturn of the f mount for Nikon, or is effort going to be made in development of f mount products ?
Should us dslr users start to make the transition to mirrorless?

I don’t believe this post will answer my questions though as I attempt to work this out in my mind through the next few months my hope is to formulate a plan.

What difference does it REALLY make as far as your future, potential lens purchase(s)?

YOUR existing F-mount Nikon lenses will work on their Z-mount cameras + OTHER brands of cameras ...

... If you want to get a Z-mount camera, then get one.

... If you want to get a SONY, then get one.

... et cetera.

That is, YOUR next camera may not even be a Nikon.

Regardless, YOUR only concern should probably be the quality of the sensor & existing lenses + the doo-dah functions which YOU may deem to be necessary.

FWIW. I still believe (and, I may be the ONLY one!!) that at least ONE future digital camera will have a curved sensor AND consequently can have smaller, equivalent lenses ...

... So, a mirrorless camera body with an EVF will almost be the most logical configuration.

Maybe it will be a Nikon, maybe it won't be.

Maybe "older" lenses will be able to produce acceptable images on the curved sensor ... maybe not!?!

There have been a lot of DEAD ENDS in photographic technology; so, WHY worry about a future development if you are good-to-go with what you have?

AND, if you are really worried about your future lenses, then just buy some M-mount LEITZ/LEICA lenses which WILL NEVER BE OBSOLETE+ an M-mount digital Leica camera body.




Reply
Jan 3, 2019 07:33:36   #
Largobob
 
larryepage wrote:
I do understand that there is a real audible benefit of vacuum tube amps. And I think there is a real reason for it, even though it sort of flies in the face of Ohm's law. But my belief is that vacuum tubes, which are voltage-based devices are just more suited to audio signals than transistors, which are current-based devices. And in the case of double-sided (push-pull or push-push) solid state amps, there's that nasty business of the barrier voltage in the zero crossing area. Of course, the other side of the problem was building (and later lifting) output transformers with enough iron in the cores to efficiently couple the low frequencies.
I do understand that there is a real audible benef... (show quote)


OK Larry and TriX. Sound is basically an analog "Sine" waveform....it has amplitude, wavelength, frequency. Vacuum tubes operate (sloppily) duplicating sine waveforms.....they are relatively slow to respond and consequently "sound mellow." The human ear (tympanic membrane) operates in sine waveform. Audio speakers vibrate in sine waveforms. Sound is a sine event.

Digital sources (transistor components, CD's, etc) operate with square waves....on/off, zero/one.

Neither our ears, nor our speakers can effectively cope with this difference in waveform.....sine vs. square. Thus there is a difference in the listening experience.

I still spin vinyl, and also use CD/DVD. I shoot DSLR but also shoot medium format film.

I don't see the 'F' mount, or the DSLR, or analog sound, or film cameras/equipment ever going away.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 07:37:25   #
Jerry G Loc: Waterford, Michigan and Florida
 
[quote=larryepage]The biggest flurry of research, development, and design/manufacturing improvements in 110 years of phonographic history took place in the last five years

Interestingly, Best Buy stopped selling CDs but sells vinyl.

Reply
 
 
Jan 3, 2019 08:10:06   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
Steve Perry wrote:
IMO it depends how quickly mirrorless is adopted by the masses. Keep in mind that Nikon launched the 500PF (F-Mount Lens) the same day they launched the mirrorless cameras. While there's no doubt mirrorless will be the platform of the future, how quickly people adopt that future will ultimately decide how long Nikon will continue to make new F-mount glass. I doubt even Nikon knows for sure.


"The masses" People who are on this site and others like it and who own DSLR's are not the masses. Cellphones are the camera of choice for "the masses" That consumer is not interested in schlepping around a camera bag full of "stuff" there is no anguish over ISO, Aperture or any concern for the best light. They take the picture they instantly share it with friends, family and those recipients also have the same lack of concern for settings. They are looking at a nice picture. They are happy it is a nice picture. They are not concerned about backups or spending vacation time editing pictures.
We have 5 children. Only one has a DSLR. He gave me his D610 and he bought a D850. That comes out to 20% the other four use their cell phones. The older grandchildren less one all use their cell phone. That one I gave my D90 to when his father gave me the D610. He was not using the camera to take pictures at Christmas.
My take is there is no sustainable growth for these camera's like in the past. There will be pockets but "the masses" they have moved on.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 08:29:11   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Nikon has no choice but to rush development of lenses for their Z cameras. There are plenty of F-mount lenses available - no shortage there. Top-selling lenses will be improved over time, but the Z cameras will get most of the R&D.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 08:38:27   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Largobob wrote:
OK Larry and TriX. Sound is basically an analog "Sine" waveform....it has amplitude, wavelength, frequency. Vacuum tubes operate (sloppily) duplicating sine waveforms.....they are relatively slow to respond and consequently "sound mellow." The human ear (tympanic membrane) operates in sine waveform. Audio speakers vibrate in sine waveforms. Sound is a sine event.

Digital sources (transistor components, CD's, etc) operate with square waves....on/off, zero/one.

Neither our ears, nor our speakers can effectively cope with this difference in waveform.....sine vs. square. Thus there is a difference in the listening experience.

I still spin vinyl, and also use CD/DVD. I shoot DSLR but also shoot medium format film.

I don't see the 'F' mount, or the DSLR, or analog sound, or film cameras/equipment ever going away.
OK Larry and TriX. Sound is basically an analog ... (show quote)


Largebob, just a clarification or two. The sounds we perceive are analog in nature, but they may or may not be sine waves - they may for instance be a single pulse with a fast rise and fall time which looks very much like a square wave. Secondly those digital pulse trains from the C/D are converted by a D/A converter in the player back to an analog form, which just like the vinyl, may or may not be sine waves, but the idea that we are listening to square waves is not the case (unless, of course the original recorded sound was a square wave). What is correct is that tube amps and transistor amps, in addition to having different characteristics when over-driven, often have different distortion characteristics (I can add more detail if you like), resulting in a different “sound” which can be measured and quantified by a spectrum analyzer. Also, the transitions at the extremes of a fast peak are typically not as sharp on vinyl and tube amps, producing a more “gentle” (for lack of a better word) sound which may be the sine wave vs square wave analogy you used. As to vinyl vs CDs - whichever you prefer is the right choice for you.

Reply
Jan 3, 2019 08:42:52   #
sr71 Loc: In Col. Juan Seguin Land
 
User ID wrote:
`

The F-mount is embedded in the
hardware designs for the NASA
Pluto Rover, so it will be around
for another few billion dollars ...
I meant miles ... or years ......

.


How so? Inquiring mind wants to know please......

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 6 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.