imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Most of us cannot afford/manage a 600 f4 - or a 6 1/2 lb. 150-600....and so we stay in better light anyway with our high MP crop frames.

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Steve411

Bought a Nikon P900 for Alaska Trip..$600. Amazing Zoom to over 2000mm. And the 900 is cheaper than a regular long lens. Best results in daylight.. samples attached, Reach Out and Touch Something. Reach out further? The new Nikon P1000. The attached moon is full image the eagle is about 1/30 of a frame. Steve411

Swifti

My gosh, you guys on this forum are terrific! Thank you for all the valuable information and consideration of my question. I think I’m leaning towards the D500, as my shorter range lenses are DX; but I guess I’ve got a year or so to consider if maybe an FX camera might better suit my needs. I value image quality, but I really want that reach. From the comments here, the D500 seems like it best fits my goal.

Indrajeet Singh Loc: Goa, India

D500, I also have the D850 and two of the lenses you mention. Side by side, the D500 outperforms the D850 when it comes to acquiring focus and for birds on the wing, it is matchless. As already suggested by several others here, the DX sensor has some advantages. The additional crop on the D500 is very useful in some situations.

Nikon1201

I went from a Dx to full frame Nikon and the quality of the photo is much better than Dx. I will never look back.

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

The D500 is a tremendous camera. If you do not want to spend the money, the D7500 would be the one to get after the D500. It has the same sensor as the D500 and it has a more advanced AF system than the D7200, a bigger buffer (twice the size or mode,) faster processor and a higher frame rate. In addition, the D7500 screen is better in daylight than the one on the D7500, plus is articulated and touch-control. The D7500 has a built-in flash which is not found on the D500, if that is of any importance.

debk

If money is no object and you want a full frame, I'd say the D850. I own a D500 and love it and it's a great combination with the 200-500 lens. Either would beat the frame rate of both the D750 and D810, even though both are great cameras. But if you want to capture action, frame rate is something to consider.

chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY

Agree. With my Tammy 150-600 (a "sunny day" lens) at the 600 end on the D7200 I find that filling the frame with the bird (a perched bird that is distant) is a challenge often - for BIF I can get closer somehow at 450-550 if they are flying overhead a bit - the wingspan makes for a larger target subject - I would imagine with a D8xx body it would be even more challenging - although I could crop more with the 36-45 MP, but then I am back to square one - shoot crop to begin with and fill the frame using a teleconverter. Overall I think the crop sensor D500 is the best choice for the birding/BIF genre. Sure a D8xx body will provide a notch better IQ, as would a D750, but then I would definitely need a TC (1.4 or 1.7 x at least), OR get closer to the bird if that is possible - sometimes yes. And then AF performance might not be as good. It might be a zero sum game when all is considered (cost, weight, IQ, AF performance, composition, etc). I do find that a high shutter is necessary for BIF 1/1600 or faster - is that everyone's experience? Also VC/ VR on or off? Panning mode or regular VC mode? I am experimenting with the settings lately.

via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

D500. You don't need full frame for wildlife as that leaves way too much dead space in general.

Bear2 Loc: Southeast,, MI

Nikon D500/Nikon D7200.

Swifti

Thanks for all the helpful and thoughtful replies. I broke down and bought the camera this year. Got the D500 from Adorama on special! Have been playing with it today photographing backyard birds. Love it, was just the performance I was hoping for when paired with my Nikor 200-500mm lens. Lots to learn still, but I feel I have quality equipment to grow into!

SpyderJan Loc: New Smyrna Beach. FL

Great choice Swifti. I have the D500 also and it is a magnificent camera and paired with your 200-500, it is the birding combo to beat. You are going to enjoy your new D500 a lot.

TD47 Loc: Athens, GA

While I wanted a D500, I bought a refurb D7200 w. two lenses last year for half the cost of the D500. I shoot a lot of birds, wildlife and motorsports. While the burst rate, focus and tracking system on the D500 is superior to the D7200, the $ savings on the D7200 allowed me to buy two longer lenses.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

The ISO 2250 is definitely noisy - and all are devoid of the fine detail possible with a D800, even when cropped.

These were taken with a D800 and a 150-600 Sigma Sport at ISO 800, 1600, 3200 and 1250. Note that the full resolution of a D800 is 7,360 × 4,912 for 36 mp, and pay particular attention to the crop before resizing for post, which is set to 2048 on the longest side). The last image was taken with my 600mmF4, ISO 1600.

Images from high mp full frame cameras are very tolerant of extreme cropping, but only if you use a very sharp lenses. I have not seen a crop sensor camera that comes close to matching the performance of a full frame camera, even when heavily cropped. The 9.4 mp crop represents an 74% reduction in size, and the 5.4 mp crop is an 85% reduction.

Yeah, I challenge anyone with a D500 or a D7200 and a 200-500 to match or exceed these results. This is the rationale behind my suggestion. I would not feel comfortable using anything less than a full frame camera, preferably 36 mp or higher, for birding. You can get a nice clean D800 for around $700-$800 these days, so you may not have to wait as long as you think.

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ISO 800, cropped to 2734x3444 - 9.4 mp

(Download)

ISO 1600, cropped to 2961x2354 - 7 mp

(Download)

ISO 3200, cropped to 2782x1931 - 5.4 mp

(Download)

ISO 1250 - cropped to 2620x2123 - 5.5 mp

(Download)

ISO 1600, cropped to 2208x2619 - 5.8 mp

(Download)

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

The Tamron 150-600 G2 is 2 lb lighter at just 4.4 lbs- which is totally manageable and yields quite crisp and detailed images. As I have said before, my 5 ft tall 65 yr old female friend loves hers and always uses it hand held. And many of shooters I saw around the NYC area, had one of the 150-600s, or the 200-500, or the Canon 100-400 with a 1.4, or a Canon 300 F2.8 with a 2X and more than half of them were women, and doing excellent work. Not a one uses crop sensor cameras. I don't know who you travel with, but in my group of bird and wildlife shooters - we all shoot full frame Nikon or Canon, with a few Sony shooters. And they get the money shots more often than not. Just sayin', Larry.

Here are two of my favorite bird shooters - the first uses a 5D Mk III and a 100-400 II with a 1.4X or a 400 F5.6, and the second uses a 5D MIV and a 300 F2.8 and a 2X

https://untamednewyork.smugmug.com/Birds

https://laurameyers.photoshelter.com/portfolio/C0000.VUQuPW_BLE/G0000swUt0V9kjIE

Sharron and Laura each started with 7Ds, then moved on to full frame and hardly ever used their 7Ds again. Both have a definite style, and their work shows impeccable technique, careful and competent post processing, and great patience and timing to get the right shot - it's hard to dispute that their work shows a high level of expertise - I suppose that the "most of us" that you speak of are not anywhere in the same league. But if you want to know what successful bird shooters use, there are two examples. And they are not at all limited to shooting on sunny days. Oh, and they both shoot raw - I just couldn't resist.

So, believe it or not I totally agree with you - crop and M4/3 cameras can take good bird pictures in good light - but as the light level drops, or you want to get some truly stunning images during early morning or late afternoon feeding times, or you want to shoot short eared owls that really only become active a half hour before sunset, well I guess you know what you'll need - and it ain't gonna be a crop camera.