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Why go mirrorless?
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Nov 11, 2018 21:55:54   #
gwilliams6
 
tdekany wrote:
You are a typical gearhead, who matches the stereotype.

1 - no picture of any kind from you.

2 - you are not even aware of the obvious like 5 axis IBIS and how effective it is with ANY lens that is attached to the camera.

3 - complaining about battery power? My cameras are a few years old, which means that they both use the older, smaller batteries and if I go out every day to shoot some, I charge the batteries once a week. AGAIN, you are not well informed.

4 - less DR in Mirrorless Cameras? Where in the hell do you come up with these false claims?

I’m going to stop here, because you are not interested in facts, you just want to sound knowledgeable, but many of us are users of Mirrorless Cameras and we see that you are clueless about current mirrorless technologies.

The more you post about Mirrorless Cameras, the worse you sound.

It was previously suggested, but I’m going to say it again. It is obvious, that you have never held an interchangeable mirrorless camera, let alone use one, so why don’t you go into a camera store and pick one up to play with?

I don’t think you want to seem any more silly than you already are.

If you are going to join a conversation, at least be informed a little bit? Like having experience looking through an EVF?
You are a typical gearhead, who matches the stereo... (show quote)



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Nov 11, 2018 21:56:57   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Bipod wrote:
Mirrorless camers have been out for a while.

Does anybody know of a famous photorgrapher who uses one?
Or a Pultizer Prize winner? Or honorary degree or royal honors
recipient? Or whose work is in museum collections? Or even
one whose work fetches high prices in galleries and auctions?

Not clubs, contests or corporate-sponsored awards.

Consumers are not the whole of photography--or even the most
important part (except to corporate earnings).

For consumers, convenience is king.
Mirrorless camers have been out for a while. br b... (show quote)


Are you serious?

I know of 2 of Pulitzer winners, Jay Dickman and Larry Price. Both use the Olympus m4/3 system.

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Nov 11, 2018 22:04:09   #
gwilliams6
 
Bipod wrote:
Mirrorless camers have been out for a while.

Does anybody know of a famous photorgrapher who uses one?
Or a Pultizer Prize winner? Or honorary degree or royal honors
recipient? Or whose work is in museum collections? Or even
one whose work fetches high prices in galleries and auctions?

Not clubs, contests or corporate-sponsored awards.

Consumers are not the whole of photography--or even the most
important part (except to corporate earnings).

For consumers, convenience is king.
Mirrorless camers have been out for a while. br b... (show quote)


Yes Pulitzer winners use them like two-times Pulitzer winner Larry Price (Olympus),Pulitzer winner Brian Smith (Sony) , other Pulitzer winners and countless award winners from POY and World Press like myself.

https://www.facebook.com/GSWilliamsPhotography/

During my nearly 29 years as a senior staff photographer at the Philadelphia Inquirer, I was the recipient of over 150 international, national and regional photo awards,including from World Press and POY. Between my Newsday and Philadelphia Inquirer tenures ,I have received seven Pulitzer Prize nominations. I have also been nominated for the Overseas Press Award in Photojournalism. I was honored to be elected to and served on the Executive Board of NPPA and its Board of Directors. During my four years on the NPPA board, I was the recipient of NPPA's Sam Mellor Award for Outstanding service to NPPA (The National Press Photographers Association).

Since 2009 I have been an Adjunct Professor at Rowan University teaching Photojournalism and Digital Photography, while continuing my freelance photography.

My work has been published in numerous books, newspapers, magazines including Time, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, Paris Match, Der Spiegel, Good Housekeeping, Car and Driver and others. Many of my photos have been distributed worldwide by Associated Press, and other Wire Services, and have been exhibited in museums and permanent collections in several countries. Some of my subjects included professional sports, breaking news, celebrities, heads of state, royalty, and five Nobel Peace Prize laureates among others. As a compassionate photojournalist I have covered the ravages of war ,and documented the human condition in several countries, with my photos making a positive difference.

. We are living it, not fake news.

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Nov 11, 2018 22:04:20   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
https://www.markmetternich.com - he uses a Sony A7r2. Ditched his Canon gear, but he uses canon lenses

https://www.joeedelman.com - another pro who ditched his b810 and lenses for the m4/3 system.

I could spend days posting pros who switched from dslrs to mirrorless.

But if you can post on uhh, you should be able to google this info yourself.

If you did your own research, you’d sound less ignorant.

I honestly can’t believe how uneducated you are about this topic.

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Nov 11, 2018 22:07:37   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Yes Pulitzer winners use them like two-times Pulitzer winner Larry Price (Olympus),Pulitzer winner Brian Smith (Sony) , many more and countless award winners from POY and World Press Winners like myself. https://www.facebook.com/GSWilliamsPhotography/ . We are living it, not fake news.



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Nov 11, 2018 22:43:15   #
User ID
 
Bipod wrote:
Mirrorless camers have been out for a while.

Does anybody know of a famous photorgrapher who uses one?
Or a Pultizer Prize winner? Or honorary degree or royal honors
recipient? Or whose work is in museum collections? Or even
one whose work fetches high prices in galleries and auctions?

............


What silly ass argument. The vast majority of the
pictures that you're talking about were NOT made
with SLRs, nor with Live View cameras. So, WTF
has any of that got to do with the current thread
and discussion ? You built a straw man and I hope
you brought plenty hot dogs and marshmallows.

How many pulitzer winners or famous artistes
drove Kias ? See, none. So no one today seeking
success in arts and communication is gonna see
any progress or success if they drive a Kia. Also
soy milk. None of them Pulitzers or Royals drank
soy milk. If you drive a Kia, drink soy milk, AND
use a live view camera, you are not following in
the footsteps of the masters and elders, and so
you have no street cred and your future is dim.

And don't be dabbling with SLRs neither. Almost
none of them saints of photography used those,
and the few that did were conscripted, and their
families held hostage by the SLR manufacturers.
They despised those clunky awkward noisy Rube
Goldberg contraptions.

You can look it up.


`

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Nov 11, 2018 22:48:55   #
dandi Loc: near Seattle, WA
 
Another excellent award winning photographer who switched to Olympus after using Nikon for 40 years.
He "shoots" people with the camera, of course- his quote.

https://www.getolympus.com/us/en/visionaries/joe_edelman

Check his webpage, it's really nice.

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Nov 11, 2018 23:01:43   #
matty
 
I am a crass beginner who managed to start with a mirrorless camera, and I love being able to change a setting and see what effect the change will have before I press the button. This might not be important to someone who has done this for years and knows what effect changes will have, but for me it has been a real game-changer.

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Nov 11, 2018 23:05:50   #
jcboy3
 
jim quist wrote:
I have 3 canon 1d series bodies and a great selection of lenses. And I am getting ready to buy the 1dx mk2. I have photographed documentaries for the Army, collegiate sports, weddings, senior portraits, high school sports pics, been published more times than I can count in newspapers, and in magazines. I don't baby my equipment, it takes a beating. Dings, rain, snow, heat, dirt, etc, It's just unavoidable. There is nothing I feel limited by with my current set up.
Can anyone tell me just why mirrorless is so much better? Can you tell me in simple terms why I would be head over heals in love with a mirrorless camera?
I have 3 canon 1d series bodies and a great select... (show quote)


At a certain age, you just don't want to look in the mirror anymore.

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Nov 11, 2018 23:08:06   #
matty
 
I'll drink to that. :)

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Nov 11, 2018 23:10:15   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Bipod wrote:


Does anybody know of a famous photorgrapher who uses one?
Or a Pultizer Prize winner? Or honorary degree or royal honors
recipient? Or whose work is in museum collections? Or even
one whose work fetches high prices in galleries and auctions?
.


Rather a specious argument at best. The Pulitzer winner is the photographer, not the camera. My guests do not enjoy my dinner because my cooktop is a GE. I can take a great photo with an old Brownie, or a terrible one with an 850. And the "mirrorless" is not new because it lacks a mirror, but because it is taking the best parts - the electronic and optical parts of the hybrid system, the DSLR, and ridding it of some of the mechanical components that have been handicapping it: i.e. the prism and mirror and the need for a separate focusing screen, a separate metering light path and the coordination and sequencing of all these mechanical work-arounds to make this intricate machine the DSLR. These have imposed a bulky body, and a long lens mount to focal plane distance that imposes limitations in turn upon lens efficiency, as well as very exacting mechanical tolerances to get the whole thing to work. Taking a whole lot of the intricate mechanical stuff out, expediting and simplifying the design while making it not just more efficient at the same tasks but allowing for even better performance is called "progress". Manufacturers are going to follow the yellow brick road, and the mirror and prism are going to relics very shortly.

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Nov 11, 2018 23:14:37   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
matty wrote:
I am a crass beginner who managed to start with a mirrorless camera, and I love being able to change a setting and see what effect the change will have before I press the button. This might not be important to someone who has done this for years and knows what effect changes will have, but for me it has been a real game-changer.


Thank you. A rational argument.

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Nov 12, 2018 06:16:06   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Well put. Yet, I doubt your prediction: "the mirror and prism are going to (be) relics very shortly."

Too many functioning DSLRs exist in the hands of millions of photographers successfully producing worthy photographs using this camera for it to become a relic soon.

The process of transition more likely will happen incrementally. Some present users of DSLRs, a device now outmoded, will adopt the mirrorless camera for its advantages -- for example, a smaller size and lighter weight along with better control of results in camera. I sense that newcomers to photography will tend to go with the mirrorless camera. Obviously, mirrorless digital cameras improve significantly on the electro-mechanical apparatus of camera operation, by simplifying it while reducing the size and weight of this device.

That said, the history of photography involves improvement in technology. We might describe it as three eras:
(1) pre-film; (2) film; and (3) digital. Digital now divides into two branches: (A) DSLR, and (B) mirrorless.

Before the DSLR, film cameras dominated photography. Yes, film cameras later went passe quickly after introduction of the digital camera, but primarily because the digital camera along with computerized processing of images offered far more control to the photographer.

Experienced photographers also note the absence of the messiness of film photography as a plus of digital photography. They say goodbye to photographic chemicals with relief. They also appreciate the immediate review of an image presented by a digital camera. In addition, I note that unlike film images, digital images may achieve true colors. Film produced engineered looks. The list goes on. Meanwhile, film survives as a niche in the craft of photography.

Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, and other camera-makers have switched to the mirrorless camera as the future of digital photography. In turn, photographers will follow this advance in technology. The DSLR in time will become passe just as film did.

I offer one caution in this transition to mirrorless cameras: Do not become an early adopter. Wait until the second or third iteration of the mirrorless camera. By then, this device will have incorporated various refinements giving better value.
CatMarley wrote:
Rather a specious argument at best. The Pulitzer winner is the photographer, not the camera. My guests do not enjoy my dinner because my cooktop is a GE. I can take a great photo with an old Brownie, or a terrible one with an 850. And the "mirrorless" is not new because it lacks a mirror, but because it is taking the best parts - the electronic and optical parts of the hybrid system, the DSLR, and ridding it of some of the mechanical components that have been handicapping it: i.e. the prism and mirror and the need for a separate focusing screen, a separate metering light path and the coordination and sequencing of all these mechanical work-arounds to make this intricate machine the DSLR. These have imposed a bulky body, and a long lens mount to focal plane distance that imposes limitations in turn upon lens efficiency, as well as very exacting mechanical tolerances to get the whole thing to work. Taking a whole lot of the intricate mechanical stuff out, expediting and simplifying the design while making it not just more efficient at the same tasks but allowing for even better performance is called "progress". Manufacturers are going to follow the yellow brick road, and the mirror and prism are going to relics very shortly.
Rather a specious argument at best. The Pulitzer w... (show quote)

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Nov 12, 2018 06:31:21   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Bipod wrote:
As Canon clearly states, EOS EF-mount and EF-S mount lenes require an adapter
to work on a mirrorless Canon R body.

Similarly, Nikon F-mount lense require an adapter to work on the Z1.

Lens adapters are a source of trouble. Fit may not be perfect. Back-forcus may not
be perfect. Collimation may be affected. In some cases, certain lens features may
not work. These adapters have two sets of electrical contacts,

It can be done, but it is no fun. Nobody is going to be happy using their main lenses
with adapters. BTW, the Canon adaptor sells for $199 at B&H.

That's $199 you will have to pay just to keep using your existing Canon lenses--
with an additional headache.
As Canon clearly states, EOS EF-mount and EF-S mou... (show quote)


The adapter in the Canon case has no detrimental effect upon focus (Focus is on the sensor) ALL features work as well as added features like control ring adapter add features to the EF/EF-S lenses. All independent testers state the lenses actually work better on the R body than the EF bodies.
You seem to be confusing Nikon with Canon as to loss of features. With Canon ALL features work exactly or better on the R body as they do on the EF bodies. Collimation will not be a factor at all as the adapter by Canon is made to the same absolute precision as the body and lenses.
Your prejudice against Canon is coming through loud and clear. Review after review have shown and praised the EF to R adaptation and how excellent it is. So your lack of reading anything at all about the EF/EF-S to R is loud and clear and you are just talking from hatred for Canon like so many have done here with no basis of fact and outright deception and lies.

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Nov 12, 2018 06:46:35   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
anotherview wrote:

I offer one caution in this transition to mirrorless cameras: Do not become an early adopter. Wait until the second or third iteration of the mirrorless camera. By then, this device will have incorporated various refinements giving better value.


I agree with most of what you said. But aren't we already at least at the second iteration of mirrorless? Just like with DSLRs both Nikon and Canon started with cameras that had smaller sensors and are now up to full frame. Other brands are way more advanced in many areas. I'm not suggesting that anyone or everyone should jump in now or ever. I am just reminded of the early days of personal computers. Year after year we heard 'wait for the next model' because it will be faster, etc., etc. Some folks grew old and died waiting for the next big improvement. If nobody buys the early models we never see a second of third generation.

I guess if enough folks save their money waiting for the next generation of camera, their next generation or maybe the generation after that will be thanking Grandma for leaving them all that money for their pretty new toys.



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